Burns to start v NZ

[MurphysLaw]

Well I called that one wrong - I thought it would be a bit of a hiding.
Perhaps the Blacks did too! As it turned out they will be relieved to have scambled the win.

[The Boy Dave]

The Boy Dave wrote:




Quote:

The biggest downside for me was BY.





Your are joking right?

Nope!
He was caught out at the breakdown and ended up in the breakdown himself on several occasions.
The All Black defence was allowed far too much time to get set.
It's harsh I know and but for the ref it may have been a different result but that is the way I saw it.

I would add Smudge, it may have been a team tactic for all I know, but you are not going to score much against the All Blacks if you give them that much time to set!

[TigerLad]

I think Manu's performance is being looked over a bit here. He came up against Nonu and Smith, one of the most experienced and skilled centre partnerships in the modern professional era with an inexperienced Eastmond alongside him, and he dominated them. How many players can take the ball standing still almost every time, make over 80m, beat 5 defenders and carry 13 times against Nonu and Smith? It's not the first time he's done it either. Watch the 2012 game against NZ again and Manu scored or created every single England try. The boy's genuinely world class and he doesn't get the praise he deserves.

[amazing tiger]

looking good for next season. partnership between burns and youngs was excellent. cips added something different though

[Bristol Tiger]

Nope!
He was caught out at the breakdown and ended up in the breakdown himself on several occasions.
The All Black defence was allowed far too much time to get set.
It's harsh I know and but for the ref it may have been a different result but that is the way I saw it.

I would add Smudge, it may have been a team tactic for all I know, but you are not going to score much against the All Blacks if you give them that much time to set!

I think you are being harsh on BY. He played solidly though not spectacularly - still some way from his absolute best but heading in the right direction.

England's breakdown play was generally pretty poor. The All Blacks constantly slowed our ball down and BY was having to fight to get the ball out. And yes he joined the rucks on occasions as he was 2nd man there - where were our back row? or second row? Ben plays best with quick clean ball.

England are better with a more dynamic front five - they help carry and are better at the breakdown. We missed Cole, Hartley/Young and Corbisiero. Launchbury wasn't at his best in the loose either - I expect Lawes to start second row Saturday.

Having said all that, I expect Care to start as scrum-half next game - he is better at the scrappier breakdown and is in better form (at the moment).

[The Boy Dave]

I think you are being harsh on BY. He played solidly though not spectacularly - still some way from his absolute best but heading in the right direction.

England's breakdown play was generally pretty poor. The All Blacks constantly slowed our ball down and BY was having to fight to get the ball out. And yes he joined the rucks on occasions as he was 2nd man there - where were our back row? or second row? Ben plays best with quick clean ball.

England are better with a more dynamic front five - they help carry and are better at the breakdown. We missed Cole, Hartley/Young and Corbisiero. Launchbury wasn't at his best in the loose either - I expect Lawes to start second row Saturday.

Having said all that, I expect Care to start as scrum-half next game - he is better at the scrappier breakdown and is in better form (at the moment).

I know it's harsh, it's a team game but it will not get any easier. England are vulnerable at the breakdown and clean ball is at a premium these days, it's been a consistent problem against good sides and is not something that is going to go away IMO, remember Wales 2013. It's not a problem that is apparent against lesser nations. The 9 will have a big part to play. New Zealand did not play very well IMO and still beat us. The ref did not make it any easier but I don't see anything changing there!

[DickyP]

I think you are being harsh on BY. He played solidly though not spectacularly - still some way from his absolute best but heading in the right direction.

England's breakdown play was generally pretty poor. The All Blacks constantly slowed our ball down and BY was having to fight to get the ball out. And yes he joined the rucks on occasions as he was 2nd man there - where were our back row? or second row? Ben plays best with quick clean ball.

England are better with a more dynamic front five - they help carry and are better at the breakdown. We missed Cole, Hartley/Young and Corbisiero. Launchbury wasn't at his best in the loose either - I expect Lawes to start second row Saturday.

Having said all that, I expect Care to start as scrum-half next game - he is better at the scrappier breakdown and is in better form (at the moment).

I know it's harsh, it's a team game but it will not get any easier. England are vulnerable at the breakdown and clean ball is at a premium these days, it's been a consistent problem against good sides and is not something that is going to go away IMO, remember Wales 2013. It's not a problem that is apparent against lesser nations. The 9 will have a big part to play. New Zealand did not play very well IMO and still beat us. The ref did not make it any easier but I don't see anything changing there!

If all you wan't is just clean quick ball SL would go with Dickson: if you want pace, strength and skill Danny Care; and if you want quality box kicks that are chase-able, a bit of genius, game management and speed then BY. My fear is that Danny care who is by far the best athlete of the three is an appalling box kicker and that can prove fatal against the ABs.

Let's face it BYs biggest criticism yesterday was his alleged 'fumble' which let Brodie Retallick's run down the field and led to Yarde's Yellow card: ball knocked from his hands by Kiwi on the ground in the ruck and picked up by Retallick who was at least 2 metres offside.

[Bill W (2)]

BYs biggest criticism yesterday was his alleged 'fumble' which let Brodie Retallick's run down the field and led to Yarde's Yellow card: ball knocked from his hands by Kiwi on the ground in the ruck and picked up by Retallick who was at least 2 metres offside.

Alas N. Owens Esq "interpreted" the laws such that neither was an offence.

[GT1]

I suggest you look at the incident again DickyP here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9hHy_czpIA - at 2.35 in no one touches YBY he simply drops the ball so no interference to give!

[Bill W (2)]

I suggest you look at the incident again DickyP here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9hHy_czpIA - at 2.35 in no one touches YBY he simply drops the ball so no interference to give!

A different camera angle would reveal that an all black hand from the floor flipped the ball out of BY hand!

[GT1]

Don't want to go all BJ on you Bill but show me this camera angle!

[Bill W (2)]

Don't want to go all BJ on you Bill but show me this camera angle!

TMO had the other camera angle!

[MrPartridge]

Very happy England fan here… we are building. To be honest I still expect us to lose the series 3-0 but it is not about June 2014, but 2015. Owens was a joke - Maa Nonu should have been binned in the first minute and the Blacks were lucky to avoid another yellow when May nearly scored in the corner. At 15-15 we were trying to win the game after 75 minutes with 14 men at Eden Park. Most teams would have kicked the leather of it and tried to hang on.

Burns crushes his doubters. Class is permanent.

Spot on observation here. Sorry to all you Owen Williams fans out there but Freddie will be our first choice 10 by Christmas (and then we will lose him to the 6N's in the Spring!). That said, the prospect of us having two top class 10s is mouth-watering!

Parling was better than I expected and Manu battered them and defended very well. Only disappointment for me was Ben Youngs. I don't think he had a bad game but at this level I feel he is just a bit exposed. A few aimless box kicks and his error led to the Yarde binning and you could say that cost us the game. Care for me next week.

[Noddy555]

He had a good match against New Zealand in the first test and was rather let down by the rest of his fellow backs. Let's hope this good form continues. His
kicking was excellent.