the Cult of Saracens

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3039
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

the Cult of Saracens

Post by ourla » Sat May 24, 2014 12:30 am

An article that makes for fascinating reading...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27536258

Can we learn anything from it, do we want or need to change?

Is the article hamming it up a bit... do our players/club do some of this stuff anyway?

Is it a load of tosh, they just have better players and/or less injuries than us at the minute?

Discuss.
You're either in or you're out

Smurphswillgetya
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2969
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by Smurphswillgetya » Sat May 24, 2014 4:43 am

What happens if the money runs out for the jaunts and personalised gifts etc? It works for them and I suppose if all the other clubs had millions to throw away and survive on losses running into millions every year then perhaps the other clubs could do the same. I can just see our shareholders some of which are individuals like me pouring every last penny they have so that the club can run at a loss and be insolvent
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.

St John Tiger
Tiger Cub
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by St John Tiger » Sat May 24, 2014 8:35 am

Saracens are the Toulon of the Premiership, i.e. money is no object. They are backed by South African money and can afford to run up huge deficits. Tigers have built up a culture over many years of hard graft; they have not gone out and bought it. No, we do not want to be like the “London Boks”, Tigers are a proper rugby club.

WiggoTiger
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: WIGSTON FIELDS

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by WiggoTiger » Sat May 24, 2014 10:11 am

St John Tiger wrote:Saracens are the Toulon of the Premiership, i.e. money is no object. They are backed by South African money and can afford to run up huge deficits. Tigers have built up a culture over many years of hard graft; they have not gone out and bought it. No, we do not want to be like the “London Boks”, Tigers are a proper rugby club.
Concur!! :smt023
A TIGER TILL I DIE!!
Supporting since 1977 and proud of it!!

MelChannerFan
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:42 am
Location: Herts

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by MelChannerFan » Sat May 24, 2014 10:40 am

The staff are very obliging too.

I rang up to say I was bringing a few friends to a match and asked "what time is the Kick off". The reply was "what time would you like it sir"!!!

The old ones are always the best - including fans!

ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3039
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by ourla » Sat May 24, 2014 12:58 pm

Some of it costs for sure. But I was interested in the aspects such as encouraging players to develop and do stuff off the field. And the attitude that winning isn't everything. Will they be saying that if they lose these two games mind. I don't think we should change anything. Some stuff we can't afford anyhow. But I think it's an interesting "experiment". I don't buy this it's not a proper rugby club view. I am just interested if there is anything to learn from it and whether it has longetivity.
You're either in or you're out

jack
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:36 pm
Location: Walsall

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by jack » Sat May 24, 2014 1:44 pm

They can get on with their 'wolf pack' and have as many 'cults' as they like. The overseas jaunts smack of being a glorified stag do. I wonder how many of our players partners would relish being left at home (with young kids?) while hubby is off being culty? No let's continue to do things 'The Tigers way'!
An afterthought - the activities of the cult sound rather like England in NZ at the last World Cup. Enough daft behaviour then, as I recollect!
Tigers - true Champions!

jack
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:36 pm
Location: Walsall

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by jack » Sat May 24, 2014 1:45 pm

Agree with several posters above that the educational aspect is a good idea.
Tigers - true Champions!

Smurphswillgetya
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2969
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by Smurphswillgetya » Sat May 24, 2014 2:57 pm

Why should we copy them? We have our own ethos and many clubs wish they could have our togetherness. The likes of Tigers and Munster rely on the passion for the shirt to get a bonding - something that in the long run cannot be bought
Last edited by Smurphswillgetya on Sat May 24, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.

Smurphswillgetya
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2969
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by Smurphswillgetya » Sat May 24, 2014 2:57 pm

The point is that even the educational stuff costs money. Then again I know that Tigers have a close link with De Montfort University with Wheeler getting an honorary degree and several players studying there including Lewis Moody and Marcos. Perhaps Tigers don't need to blow their trumpet about how they support the players. You just need to look at the treatment of Richard Blaze whose career was cut short by injury to see how Tigers are supportive. I would much rather our way which is sustainable than Saracens.
I don't hate Saracens but at the same time as a Tigers supporter I don't have to like them. We have set the bench mark and it is up to others to find ways to go past us. Of course winning isn't everything but getting to semi's and finals is important for growth of fan base. If Saracens don't start winning and regularly getting to finals then they will continue to draw crowds of 4 or 5,000. It was interesting that they weren't even 2nd or 3rd behind us in terms of average home gates despite moving games to bigger venues. Surely one measure of success for a sports club is the number of fans watching
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.

youngtiger
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by youngtiger » Sat May 24, 2014 3:11 pm

I imagine it's distinctly less important to be desperate to win when the amount of money coming in has no connection to the amount of money you can spend. Success breeds support, which in turn drives revenue, and it's this that is totally integral for most clubs, but for Saracens is more or less totally irrelevant.

As for the trips out, to some extent I think they're overly extravagant, but I think the idea behind it is solid: make a set of players as tight a unit as possible, so I have no problem with that really. Convincing players to take up interest in each other and in work outside of rugby are both admirable ideas.

This, however, is the funniest bit of the whole article "At Saracens, however, humility is prized as one of the club's four key values"..pahahahaaaa, laughable, sadly. It is this that makes Saracens my least favourite club, a pretence to humility when their song is "Saracens are going to be the Champions", when the have a fat lady singing before the end of a match, when they take the proverbial out of Ulster's song, they show themselves to be a club lacking in all sorts of ways.

I would be happy to see Tigers learn from certain parts of what Saracens do well, but in overall terms, I'm glad I don't have to feel embarrassed by the club I support. I'll be supporting Toulon later: brash and bold, but with with some dignity left, and not pretending to be some humble upstart. Rant over :smt026

TigerCam
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by TigerCam » Sat May 24, 2014 8:04 pm

The Tigers are 'The Tigers' lets just leave it as it is. As it has always been, a great club to support for the pure nature and simplicity of the game. Something several clubs will never have!
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat

Dominichi
Tiger Cub
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:33 am

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by Dominichi » Mon May 26, 2014 8:27 am

I can't help feeling that the cult of Saracens, whilst successful at the moment, is built on sand and will erode one day. What we have at Leicester is something more solid and engrained than at any other club and for that we should be very proud.

There is a section of the Matt Hampson book (Engage) that articulates this perfectly for me. When I read it it makes the hair on my skin stand on end and brings a lump to my throat.

It is the section where at the tribunal after the accident Cockers is being questioned by a barrister. The barrister is asking about the kindness the club has shown Matt Hampson in the aftermath of his accident.

This is what Cockers says...

'It's not about being kind. It's not about feeling sorry for him. The courage he has shown in the last four years has been extraordinary and I feel that the club has a responsibility to look after him. He was with England when he was injured but he was a Tigers player, our player. He is still our player. And he will be our player until the day he is no longer with us.'


You can keep your trips to New York, I am happy being part of the Tigers Family.

harry broggers
Tiger Cub
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:24 am
Location: Northants

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by harry broggers » Mon May 26, 2014 9:05 am

Surely, the whole point of taking part in a contest is to Win! The "winning isn't everything" and "everyone must have a go" attitudes are reminiscent of the woolly minded liberal educationalists who seek to diminish school sports days. The Saracens Ethos has some qualities to recommend it, such as Team Building, Post Playing Development etc. but really, who is going to buy the "winning isn't important" pitch? :smt013
Harry Broggers
I'm typing & thinking at the same time......does it show?

St John Tiger
Tiger Cub
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: the Cult of Saracens

Post by St John Tiger » Mon May 26, 2014 9:40 am

The so called "wolf pack" has been sunk.....come on you Saints.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests