Deliberate knock-on or not?

[Norfolk & Goode]

Can anyone (Not you Mr Garner) explain what is and what isn't a deliberate knock-on?

My understanding is that if there is an obvious upward movement of the hand or a horizontal 'gather' motion of the hand/arm, then that is a clear and genuine attempt to catch the ball after tapping it upwards or towards you.

Manu and Ben's (although in Ben's attempt he knocked it with the back of his hand on the way down for his second attempt for an upward tap), in my view were not deliberate.

Floody's was a ridiculously ambitious attempt on his own 5m line and deserved a yellow.

[Cardiff Tig]

Any attempt with one hand is deemed to be a deliberate knock on these days.

In my view BY and Manu were never going to catch the ball. Flood at least had a chance of catching it as he went with two hands, but like you said did seem a bit cynical of him!

[old one eye]

Any attempt to catch a ball by any Tigers player, no deliberate knock on.

Any attempt by any other player from any other club to catch the ball, deliberate knock on.

The above is my wife's version of the rules.

[ourla]

Law 12.1 (e) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward.

If they want to make one handed illegal they should put it in the rules.

It's a very tricky rule because saying whether someone was making a genuine attempt to intercept the ball is totally subjective, whether one handed or not. To get 3 players pinged for it suggests to me the ref hasn't judged it correctly. On the other hand, we've talked about players adjusting to the ref. If he pings a bordeline one you should take notice and err on the side of caution. Nevertheless, it's still a difficult law for the refs to impose.

[cidermark]

Got pinged for a deliberate knock on once and ref explained that if the players palm is facing outwards then the knock on would be deemed deliberate. Palm inwards - just a clumsy attempt to catch the ball.

I'm not sure if that was his own particular interpretations or wider interpretation amongst refs.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I remember a game a few seasons ago that Alex T knocked a pass up one-handed, and then juggled it before eventually dropping it.

Ref called it deliberate as the initial tap up was one handed. Even though he touched it with both hands after that.

Later in the same game he intercepted the ball - one handed and gripping the end of the ball and ran the 70m of the pitch never bothering to put it in his other hand and keeping it held aloft in-front of him most of the way.

On jogging back to the Tiger's half he was seen to have a quiet word with Sir as they passed each other.

[CitizenSmiff]

It's ridiculous how subjective this rule is and variation with which you see it officiated. As far as intent goes one hand yes two hands no would be a good benchmark as even the most skillful players can't catch a ball one-handed at speed 9 times out of 10.

[Alatoruk]

If you look at Ben Youngs he put a hand out to try and stop the ball, he then waved his arm around after it hit his hand as he realised he was going to get pinged for it.
IMO he made no attempt to catch the ball and deserved to get pinged for it. He obviously thought similar because he didn't question the decision at all.

Manu was clearly told "you go after a ball one handed it is the gamble you take" so I understand why he got yellow but IMO he actually went for the interception so it was accidental.

Floods. well you could look at it 2 ways. it was 2 handed so you could claim he was going for an interception, but did he really stand any chance of making it, in which case it was a 'professional foul' and he deserved yellow.

either way it did not stop us getting 5 points, which gives me bragging rights over a work colleague who support quins, so I'm happy

[Jumbo]

Goneva nearly got an interception inside Newcastle's 22 which would have been his hat-trick. Knock-on only. Had it been in the Tiger's 22 it's a Pen and yellow.

Stupid law - needs looking at.

[Old Hob]

If you are within 10 m of your own line and you fail to catch the ball- deliberate; whatever your real intention.

Perhaps Toby was attempting a goalkeeper type catch as seen at the weekend?

[DickyP]

... Floody's was a ridiculously ambitious attempt on his own 5m line and deserved a yellow.

Couldn't disagree with you more - he had the ball in both hands and then dropped it - just finished looking at it several times in real-time and slo-mo.

[Johndudey]

Two ways of doing the rule:

1: One hand and not caught - deliberate.
2: Two hands and not caught inside your own 22 - deliberate.

Those two should cover who gets a yellow? Any other form of knock on is just a penalty but not a yellow. I can't really see of any other way to enforce this rule. Unfortunately there is just a grey area with this rule and I don't think it'll ever be a clear cut rule, which is very frustrating.

[mol2]

Flood's was not a deliberate knock on - he went with both hands, caught the ball but coughed it up as he hit the deck. Poor execution perhaps, ambitious perhaps but was his intention to illegally intercept the pass - no way - if you can get two hands on the ball not trying to catch it would be silly.

The same applies to Manu - he was going for the catch. Yes the execution was poor but he was trying for a catch. The intention (judging by his actions) was not to slap the ball forwards. He did it one handed, and the current interpretation used by refs is that as the chances of catching the ball one handed are lower than knocking it on the player has to accept the risk that if he knocks it on he will be deemed to have done so deliberately.

Ben Youngs did whatever he could to get a hand on the ball rather than a genuine and obvious attempt to catch it. Professional foul -> yellow card quite justifiable.

[bluntiger]

The inconsistency of refereeing is so frustrating. If the rule is one handed knock-on = yellow card, then fine, as long as ALL referees apply the same decisions in ALL games. But we had three yellows in one game and next week in the same situation, we could conceivably get none! Sure, it didn't cost us in this game but could easily have cost us in a closer game.

And every scrum feed yesterday was crooked from both sides but not one was penalised.

[Noddy555]

Whilst I agreed with th ref about Manu's yellow card, I thought that the Yellow
card shown to Toby Flood was manifestally unjustified. The rules state that if you make an attempt for the ball with both hands then this should not be deemed as a deliberate knock on merely an attempt to intercept the ball. Toby dived forward with both arms outstretched to try to do this, thefact that the ball touched one hand or arm is merely co-incidental. In fact from the replay, in fact I may be going blind, but I thought that the ball touched his leg/foot.