Scotland v England

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RagingBull
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by RagingBull »

has anyone thought OTY is missing on purpose, as he wants to return to Leicester.

another thought is that Lawes is calling wrong and not reaching for OTY as he does for Hartley.



:smt002 :smt003
Isambard
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Isambard »

When the sub is made it makes sense to call a short or middle until he has settled.
WhitecapTiger
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by WhitecapTiger »

RagingBull wrote: another thought is that Lawes is calling wrong and not reaching for OTY as he does for Hartley. :smt002 :smt003
Although said in jest (?) there were two comparable line outs where the ball was way over to Scottish side of centre, Lawes caught them both but made a meal of the second one (imo) - which was pounced on immediately by the commentators - Brian "Back in the Spotlight" Moore especially, no surprise there.

Hartley threw the first......

but surely an international class (?) lock would not do such a thing on purpose?

Hartley played OK imo, OTY had a less than his best day at line outs today but there was no real drama.

Moore + other tuppence ha'penny hacks will make of things what they will, let them get on with it. It pains me to see them Lionise and demonise their individual pet project players - whichever team they represent away from England.
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Smurphswillgetya
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Smurphswillgetya »

I thought the game was littered with errors and was actually quite boring!
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.
amazing tiger
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by amazing tiger »

Smurphswillgetya wrote:I thought the game was littered with errors and was actually quite boring!
maybe for the last ten minutes but i thought it was a decent game
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Darc Tiger »

Too easy to be interesting. England should have torn them apart.
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by snoopster »

Hartley threw 20 successful line outs, with a few juggled by multiple England players before being finally caught, 16 going to Lawes and Wood.
I don't think it is a deliberate thing but says more that there are issues with the England line out - Hartley is able to muddle through it well because he can fall back on his cub line out set up but Youngs can't with the current team line up.
Soggypitch
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Soggypitch »

t was a good performance and with a little luck we would have scored a lot more points - a decent pitch would have helped!

At Geoff Parling's recent Q & A he had nothing but praise for OTY, and he blamed England's lineout debacle in the Autumn v the AB's on himself not OTY.

Young's throwing with the Lions was exceptional, he's been great for Tigers this season, providing Lancaster sticks with him, he will come good for England too.

My worry is that Lancaster is sometimes too cosy with the press,an example being that this week he brought the replacements on too late, in a game we had won, presumably because of the criticism he got last week.

That criticism was correct in the context of the French match, but yesterday he would have been correct to bring on Maku, OTY and Morgan on 60 mins IMO.

This time last year Care was out in the cold, now he is comfortably the best 9; OTY will fight through this sticky spell and come out stronger. I can't wait for the Saints away game, providing we are firing on all cylinders by then!!

Having said all the above credit to Hartley, he deserves his place currently and has done well to come back from a very dark place last Summer.
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murphy15
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by murphy15 »

Last time we had a hooker who was ace in the loose but couldn't throw in for toffee, we won the World Cup! :smt026
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DickyP
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by DickyP »

youngtiger wrote:The capitulation of the Englsih lineout on OTY's arrival is bizarre, seemingly he can't throw at all once he puts a white shirt on and has Courtney Lawes in front of him, otherwise he's fine. Lee Mears the lineout consultant has had little success in this regard.
Have you looked at his 2 'bad throws' from yesterday? Both went to the jumpers hands who then just failed to hold onto the the ball!
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by youngtiger »

DickyP wrote:
youngtiger wrote:The capitulation of the Englsih lineout on OTY's arrival is bizarre, seemingly he can't throw at all once he puts a white shirt on and has Courtney Lawes in front of him, otherwise he's fine. Lee Mears the lineout consultant has had little success in this regard.
Have you looked at his 2 'bad throws' from yesterday? Both went to the jumpers hands who then just failed to hold onto the the ball!
Just had a look back at them: 1st one Lawes doesn't touch the ball, though he's not at the top of his lift, so that's a timing issue. 2nd one there's no one actually there, so that's a communication issue or a lifting issue. 3rd one goes over the top, Lawes doesn't touch it, though thanks to the constant chopping of shots I can't tell if he was at the top of his lift when the ball got to him.

I didn't particularly intend my comment to be solely critical of Tom, a lineout is a team effort, and there are definitely 2 instances in which the lifters & lineout caller are at least partly at fault, if not entirely.
Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

I do find myself ridiculously wondering if Lawes does it on purpose in order to ensure his club captain gets to start, I know this is stupid and cannot possibly be the case but I just cannot fathom why else it would suddenly be so bad, especially at OTY has a better percentage then Hartley for Tigers, even with their ever changing cast of jumpers
DickyP
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by DickyP »

youngtiger wrote:
DickyP wrote:
youngtiger wrote:The capitulation of the Englsih lineout on OTY's arrival is bizarre, seemingly he can't throw at all once he puts a white shirt on and has Courtney Lawes in front of him, otherwise he's fine. Lee Mears the lineout consultant has had little success in this regard.
Have you looked at his 2 'bad throws' from yesterday? Both went to the jumpers hands who then just failed to hold onto the the ball!
Just had a look back at them: 1st one Lawes doesn't touch the ball, though he's not at the top of his lift, so that's a timing issue. 2nd one there's no one actually there, so that's a communication issue or a lifting issue. 3rd one goes over the top, Lawes doesn't touch it, though thanks to the constant chopping of shots I can't tell if he was at the top of his lift when the ball got to him.

I didn't particularly intend my comment to be solely critical of Tom, a lineout is a team effort, and there are definitely 2 instances in which the lifters & lineout caller are at least partly at fault, if not entirely.
I'd missed the fact there were three, but on the two Lawes does touch the ball!

All points to the thing I've often brought up of it's not just players but combinations. Ben Youngs and Toby Flood always look far better together than with the other 9s and 10s. Care (apart from his appalling box kicks) looks a much better combination with Farrell than BY. Tom Youngs with Geoff Parling works: Hartley with Lawes works.- the other mixes often don't.

In fact I'm sure they should drop both Dan Cole (who according to the paper you looked at was dreadful/outstanding yesterday) and Tom Youngs and send them back to Tigers to get their acts together!!!!

I'm sure Newcastle etc would be delighted to see a full strength Tigers team during the 6N when they thought they'd get a weakened squad.
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Noddy555
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by Noddy555 »

I Think the Scotland match showed England's inability to really kill off a game. They should really have won by 40 or 50 points. Scotland were that poor, and of
course this inability to kill off a game cost them dearly against France. Although their general standard of play was good, several incorrect decisions were made at crucial times, and though I hate to admit it because he is a quins
player Danny Care is playing out of his skin at the moment and should never have been substituted with 11 minutes to go in the French match. If England continue in the same vein, I cannot see victories against the Irish or Welsh and the Italian game could be difficult as it's in Rome.
tigerburnie
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Re: Scotland v England

Post by tigerburnie »

I can see this side winning the triple crown, not sure they deserve too, just have feeling that the fixture list favours them.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
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