Tomvarndell wrote:You only have to look at who has won the Six Nations the year after the POXY Lions have toured and you can see the effect the tour has on individuals. The tour has no place in the current professional climate in my opinion.
Ben badly needs a rest. He is still playing well enough to be our first choice but the fizz and spark that make him World Class is just missing. I remain convinced a proper summer off and he will be the Ben we know.
Tom, if you had the choice you would rather Dan Cole, Manu, Croft, BY, TY, Parling play in club games against sub standard opposition, than challenge themselves on the best rugby tour in the world, the Lions away to Australia, NZ or SA.
Clearly there is not room for both, well not room that keeps the players fit and fresh, so you would rather these brilliant players spend their time playing at a level way below their potential ?
From a purely selfish Tigers point of view I would rather them have six whole weeks off after we beat Saints at Twickers again this year, maybe even put a bit of pudding on in the weeks off recuperating. Then return to a Club who have THEIR interests in mind opposed to a foreign coach of a rival International team with no concerns as to what condition they return back to their clubs in. Hopefully then these players can have a good pre season at their club. The summer should be for resting in the main, not playing pointless midweek games in Australia whilst carrying niggles which need rest.
Tomvarndell wrote:From a purely selfish Tigers point of view I would rather them have six whole weeks off after we beat Saints at Twickers again this year, maybe even put a bit of pudding on in the weeks off recuperating. Then return to a Club who have THEIR interests in mind opposed to a foreign coach of a rival International team with no concerns as to what condition they return back to their clubs in. Hopefully then these players can have a good pre season at their club. The summer should be for resting in the main, not playing pointless midweek games in Australia whilst carrying niggles which need rest.
Tomvarndell wrote:From a purely selfish Tigers point of view I would rather them have six whole weeks off after we beat Saints at Twickers again this year, maybe even put a bit of pudding on in the weeks off recuperating. Then return to a Club who have THEIR interests in mind opposed to a foreign coach of a rival International team with no concerns as to what condition they return back to their clubs in. Hopefully then these players can have a good pre season at their club. The summer should be for resting in the main, not playing pointless midweek games in Australia whilst carrying niggles which need rest.
That isnt what happened though is it ? Six tigers went on tour to compete for test places. Each one of them played some part of the Tests. Four of them, TY, BY, Parling and Croft all started test matches.
Cole played a significant part in every test. Manu injured himself early on and made the 23 for the last game.
I get the Tigers bit, we are all fans, but it baffles me why people would think a club schedule should take priority over the opportunity to represent the Lions or your country.
The issue is elite players playing too many standard club games, and being out of condition for games that are the pinnacle of rugby.
Wow, that's a lot. It's a minimum 5 -7 matches too many. I think the Celt and the Anzac guys are playing between 25-30 ? No wonder the guy is out injured. Neck, knees, shoulder. He has missed a lot of rugby in the last 2-3 years.
The problem is of course that neither club nor union are willing to conceed those 5-7 matches, and the interests of the player are secondary. Same in France.
The Lions are a step too far in this day and age.
I know all about the ethos etc and the traditions.
This was all well and good in shamature days.
But the concept is crazy.
Speaking as an Englishman, the union that has vastly more players, clubs, facilities and
money than NZ,Aus and SA put together, what possible excuse
is there for having to unite with the other home unions in order to play them?
To have a foreign coach treat them like dirt?
It is also one more tour to endure. Time to get rid of the Lions and reduce the
A.I.s to one and to play the 6Ns before or after Christmas.
Really can't agree with the title of this thread and some of those suggesting a massive drop in form. Maybe not has his best season particularly early on but given the disruption to the team has anyone been able to play outstandingly well?
He looked tired to me at the beginning of the season which I think understandable given the amount of rugby he's played in the last couple of years.
I also think that his form in the last few games has been well above what a lot are suggesting and he's clearly in up there with the other England contenders though maybe not above them on their current form. Unlike them however he'll no doubt, as he and the rest of the squad tend to, get better as the season wears on. It appears often to me that he is unfortunately for him one of those players that people just jump on if every single thing they do isn't bewilderingly sublime.
For what its worth I think Allen was the change in the team at the weekend not so much Mele, strengthening my belief that Allen is not only pivotal to our defensive structure but also the cost in performance we've suffered without any consistency at centre and the seniority of such a player.
Don't think it'll matter particularly which of our 9's start they're both more than good enough and which ever doesn't start will be an excellent replacement.
Im with you 1979 - I think he's been playing better recently in a side that hasn't been playing well and at times with a makeshift midfield around him.
Certainly looked tired and not sharp in the early part of the season.
Not as quick at getting the ball away from the breakdown as he might be but the rest of his game is there at present.
If Flood is fit enough to kick I think Cockers will pick Youngs. If he's not then Mele will play for his kicking as i'm sure Williams will be benched and AA at 12.
Ben is playing as well as he ever has. He has been playing behind a pack that hasn't been as dominant at times so gets slow ball or scrappy ball and even Blackfoot ball. All difficult to deal with but good for him to do to help his development. Ben gas magic that can win us a game none if the rest of our sucks have that
Mat wrote:Ben is playing as well as he ever has. He has been playing behind a pack that hasn't been as dominant at times so gets slow ball or scrappy ball and even Blackfoot ball. All difficult to deal with but good for him to do to help his development. Ben gas magic that can win us a game none if the rest of our sucks have that
Mat
The "Ben Youngs is useless" campaign was a one man show launched by Noddy claiming "a vast majority" of support including Cockers who, he claimed , would drop him to "teach him a lesson".
Massive game for Ben today v Pienaar that we need him to edge. It'll be a good indicator to what level he is operating at currently. Good luck to the lad - he has been improving in recent weeks, time to take it to the next level tonight.
Not really fair to compare YBY with him as Pienaar is really a 10 playing at 9!
2 very different players doing the same job it will be fascinating to watch this match up but I suspect Ulster will have the edge!
However I expect the game to be won elsewhere ie up front, Tigers need to seriously up their game today to have any chance of a home 1/4 final
