The Fall of Ben Youngs

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bc
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The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by bc » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:18 am

I don't think I have seen such a dip in form as I have witnessed this season from Ben Youngs. I can only think of 20 mins when he has looked the class player that we know he is. That was the last 20 mins in the Montpellier away game when his speed to the break down, distribution and awareness were superb apart from that he has been mediocre at best.
His game yesterday summed up,for me, his season - slow to the breakdown, no urgency, poor pass, no threat around the base or around the pitch. The only aspect that has been good and is better than any England scrum half is his box kicking.
IMO, based on the season, he is way down the England scrum half pecking order with the following ahead of him:
Care,
Dickson,
Wrigglesworth,
Robson,

From a Tigers perspective Mele should be starting, his impact was immdediate at Treviso, he bought much more urgency and threat and that ignited Tigers.

From Ben's perspective I can only think he is carrying an injury or there is a problerm mentally that needs addressing. He really needs to get sorted out quickly. Lets hope so because he is a great player and has the ability to be a world's best.

SilebyTiger
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by SilebyTiger » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:32 am

He's probably still shattered from the Lions tour. Any Tigers watchers over the past few years will tell you that YBY has his drops in form and tends to pick up as the season goes on. Keep faith with him!

sam16111986
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:34 am

Stop being overly dramatic. Ben had an average game where he tried hard but it didn't really happen for him. He certainly wasn't the only to not to shine.

Remember Mele came on as Allen rescued the backline and Crane added much needed composure up front. Those things made his life easier. I would start Mele next week though.

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by MrPartridge » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:35 am

This post will get the forum talking!

I think Ben is a key player for us and we need him firing on all cylinders towards the business end if he season. But I agree he doesn't look right. His great break towards the end if the first half yesterday followed by a terrible pass to Tait summed up his recent play for me in that he is not on the top of his game.

Others will disagree, but I would start Mele v Ulster next week. After all BY isn't a bad player to bring on. Plus the rumour are TF can't place kick so we Mele could fill that role (although his place kicking was the poorest part if his game v Treviso).

Will be interesting to see how this debate. I predict it won't be too long before some one utters 'there is an anti BY campaign emerging on the forum'. In my opinion that's nonsense - most fans 'say as they see' hence the pro Ant Allen thread started yesterday. We can all see when players are in form or out and that's what the forum is for IMHO.

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by MrPartridge » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:38 am

PS apologies for typos in last post - New phone causing a few issues - will stick to comp to post in future.

snoopster
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by snoopster » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:08 am

sam16111986 wrote:Stop being overly dramatic. Ben had an average game where he tried hard but it didn't really happen for him. He certainly wasn't the only to not to shine.

Remember Mele came on as Allen rescued the backline and Crane added much needed composure up front. Those things made his life easier. I would start Mele next week though.
I agree with this - Youngs had a slow start to the season but his recent form has been good to average, though short of what we've seen in the past from him.

Mele looks good but scrum halfs coming on as subs frequently look good and in the case of Mele it was coming into a team that functioned much better around due to other changes.
I would try the other way around if I was picking though and give Youngs a bit of a rest

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by jgriffin » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:25 am

I have pointed out the curse of the Lions - look at the state of most of our Lions, injury, suceptibility to injury, form loss - it's called fatigue. Get real, posters :smt009
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sapajo
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by sapajo » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:23 am

Ben is an instinctive player and I believe this is what makes him the unique player he is and also brought him to the top of the game. That said, sadly I think he has had this coached out of him and now he tends to over think and over compensates when things do not come off. He must know that he is not performing to his own high standards and I believe he is putting immense pressure on himself and his confidence has been dented, neither of which is helping his game. Ben remains the most talented and complete No9 in England and I hope and trust that he can find his way back to top form. :smt023
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by Rykard » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:11 pm

also the inexperienced 10 behind him doesn't help
cheers
Rich

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by Farmboy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:13 pm

I stand to be corrected but seem to recall several other players doing the scrum half's job at rucks in the last 20 mins, can't remember if this was due to Mele being in the ruck or not getting there.

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:36 pm

Farmboy wrote:I stand to be corrected but seem to recall several other players doing the scrum half's job at rucks in the last 20 mins, can't remember if this was due to Mele being in the ruck or not getting there.
It was mainly due to Mele being at the bottom of the ruck. It also happened once or twice in the first half.

Ben Youngs is a quality operator who is a little off colour right now, nothing more nothing less.

It's been said elsewhere on the forum, Treviso were more aggressive earlier in the game and fell off towards the end, maybe it had a bearing or maybe it didn't. Our defence was far tighter when Allen came on, maybe this changed things too.

I don't want Mele to completely replace Youngs, I would just like to see him come on at times when Youngs is (and there have been a few for varying reasons) looking less effective than we know he can be. It happens in other positions for the benefit of the team, scrum half should be no different IMO.
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by RagingBull » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:01 pm

youngs has always been prone to some poor games, But he is worth every penny give him a break on stop rugby can have a toll on players physically and mentally. he is still only 24!!

Smudge
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by Smudge » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:24 pm

Ben Youngs is an excellent nine and Tigers through and through.
His critics don't seem to realise that opposition teams study the video of every
game he plays so that now he is marked out of many of the moves he used to make.
This doesn't make him a poorer player or signify a loss of form.
He is clearly assessed as being a major threat and marked accordingly.

IMHO he the most naturally gifted all the players in our squad.

This thread is nonsense, there has been no "fall of Ben Youngs".
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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by kornboy130 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:54 pm

Smudge wrote:Ben Youngs is an excellent nine and Tigers through and through.
His critics don't seem to realise that opposition teams study the video of every
game he plays so that now he is marked out of many of the moves he used to make.
This doesn't make him a poorer player or signify a loss of form.
He is clearly assessed as being a major threat and marked accordingly.

IMHO he the most naturally gifted all the players in our squad.

This thread is nonsense, there has been no "fall of Ben Youngs".
Whilst I'm sure most would agree on Ben Youngs' undoubted talent - it's pushing it to say he isn't perhaps suffering a temporary dip in form - fatigue from the Lions tour and long seasons as no.1 will do that to you.

Him being marked to the extent his threat is neutralised and him seemingly being temporarily unable to shift the ball so the focus on him is exploited elsewhere unfortunately does signify a loss of form - he'll come good and return to his spot as one of the world's premier scrum halves in time but he really looks like he could do with a rest and some focus on areas of his game.

Feel like I ought to say I think the bloke is mustard and will come good - but sadly at the moment he isn't at the top of his game.

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Re: The Fall of Ben Youngs

Post by MICKW » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:35 pm

Ben is a good scrum half and at the moment is perhaps not playing to his full potential. I agree that Mele comes on and the passing seems quicker. This may be to the fact that just recently we have been behind and chasing the game. The forwards are therefore providing quicker ball because we need to score to win or draw. If Mele started and Ben was brought on in the last 20 minutes, then everyone would be saying, Ben must start.

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