SCW hits out at "safety first" slancaster

[fleabane]

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story ... a=chromium

Makes a few good points!

[tigercaspian]

I assume SCW is just catching up with posters on this forum !
Personally, like ex-Prime Ministers sniping from the side now they're no longer in office, I think he needs to shut up.

[Bill W (2)]

I assume SCW is just catching up with posters on this forum !
Personally, like ex-Prime Ministers sniping from the side now they're no longer in office, I think he needs to shut up.

Just so. But he doubless earns an (honest)shilling from it!

[Wes]

I wonder who the players from the lower clubs are he mentions. I can only recall a certain J Wilkinson who didn't play for a top side during his reign!

[tig1]

I need to go and dig out all those 2003 World Cup DVDs and watch all those incredible back moves.
And since that will take me about 1 minute, I could watch the 2007 run to the final at the same time.

Basically England had a world class pack , and a world class goal kicker..........oh and Jason Robinson.

They scored 2 tries in 6 knockout games, and if they hadn't have had Robinson they wouldn't have scored any.

[mol2]

Tig1 - I think you underestimate the abilities of the backs in the 2003 team.
Compare say Aston to Cohen - one was a big tackle busting winger with a huge work rate and solid defense. Tindall v Tomkins?
Dawson V Dickinson? No contest really

[DickyP]

I wonder who the players from the lower clubs are he mentions. I can only recall a certain J Wilkinson who didn't play for a top side during his reign!

Well you could argue the Tigers players were as they only came 6th in the premiership in 2002/3 and 5th in 2003/4!

And someone who gave a place to Dan Luger but not Austin Heally in the 2003 RWC squad has no right to accuse anyone of safety first!

[The Boy Dave]

tig1 I think you are missing the main point of most people's view. Stats don't tell us anything about the ability to knick those tight matches when a single heads up moment will be key in gaining victory. In 2003 we had the players who took their chances when they came, limited though they may have been. This England side is probably creating more opportunities and then messing them up. This isn't rugby league, when your chance comes you don't get another phase if you mess up, in union you have to take it, or you are back to square one. Most peoples view is that the current 10 is not a creator, he relies on teammates and opposition mistakes for openings. He is a good player and worthy of a squad place but he will not win England the world cup.

[jgriffin]

tig1 I think you are missing the main point of most people's view. Stats don't tell us anything about the ability to knick those tight matches when a single heads up moment will be key in gaining victory. In 2003 we had the players who took their chances when they came, limited though they may have been. This England side is probably creating more opportunities and then messing them up. This isn't rugby league, when your chance comes you don't get another phase if you mess up, in union you have to take it, or you are back to square one. Most peoples view is that the current 10 is not a creator, he relies on teammates and opposition mistakes for openings. He is a good player and worthy of a squad place but he will not win England the world cup.

You're wasting your typing - tig1 seems to have mutated into Lancasters PR man.

[The Boy Dave]

You're wasting your typing - tig1 seems to have mutated into Lancasters PR man

He must be a busy boy then!

[tig1]

My recollection of world cups going back to 1991 are that they always won by brute force and goal kicking. Ever since Campese convinced England they could prance their way victory.

Even in 2011 the Ab backs scored only one try in the knock outs. It was Weepu and the pack that saw them over the line.

If people believe a back line with the likes of yarde, wade, burns, Eastmond, trinder, ford, et al are going to win their WC for England in 2015 it's their opinion. Personally I think they will have a very tough time, and I would think the backs from the big boys in the SH would be licking their lips running at that lot.

[northerntiger]

All true, but teams who win have fly halves who can kick brilliantly out of hand. Farrell can't. Mind you, neither can Toby

[tig1]

Aaron Cruden ?

[4071]

I wonder who the players from the lower clubs are he mentions. I can only recall a certain J Wilkinson who didn't play for a top side during his reign!

Going by finishing positions in the 2002-3 Premiership, his first choice World Cup XV included several from lower clubs.

Mike Tindall (Bath, who came 11th)
Jonny Wilkinson (Falcons, who came 10th)
Richard Hill (Saracens, who came 9th)
Will Greenwood (Harlequins, who came 7th)

Not to mention three from the club who limped in 6th, losing nearly half of their matches (Johnson, Kay, Back...) :)

[The Boy Dave]

If people believe a back line with the likes of yarde, wade, burns, Eastmond, trinder, ford, et al are going to win their WC for England in 2015 it's their opinion. Personally I think they will have a very tough time, and I would think the backs from the big boys in the SH would be licking their lips running at that lot

That is the problem isn't it. We don't believe we can win so let's try not to lose and somewhere in the middle the current set of backs continue to waste great ball. Give Farrell a little time and space and he freezes and can even manage to make the best 13 England have possessed in years look bad.