England V's Argentina

[Guinness&Nuts]

Personally, I would not have Wade any where near the 1st XV. He is a liability defensively. Foden would get my vote on the wing a head of Ashton with Yarde on taking his place on the other side.

At least we have the likes of Goode on the bench to add impact

[Smurphswillgetya]

I'm sitting at work in Northampton with a few people pointing out that not only are no Tigers starting on Saturday but 5 Saints are starting!

It's a good call putting Foden on the wing IMO, he's playing well, is quick enough and is much better defensively than all the other wingers.

Would like to have seen Wade given a chance in place of Ashton though.

I hope your response was that Argentina are not in the same league as the All Blacks and Australia and it is quite right that the Northampton players should play against lesser teams and that the good players from Leicester are being saved for the big games

[loretta]

I suppose we could be proud to have 2 current and 2 ex-tigers starting for the Argies.

[cidermark]

Team's up - no Tigers start, Youngs x2, Cole, Parling and Flood benched.

http://www.rfu.com/qbeinternationals

Any stato's out there that can tell us when an England XV last took the field without a Tigers play in the starting line up (excluding) the B team tours in Lions years.

Given the time of year we were formed - I would guess the Autumn Internationals of 1880

[Skin_and_Muscle]

According to Lancaster, Ben Youngs didn't train today and will have to take a fitness test tomorrow. Hopefully not another niggling injury that England won't worry about but we'll be left to deal with.

Another worry is that Ashton was a planned starter (despite his apparent noncommittal), and not just selected in place of an injured Christian Wade. Wow.

[jgriffin]

I wouldn't worry about any of it. There are somethings it seems will happen regardless of form, e.g. Farrell, Ashton etc.

[lind]

Bit off - centre this but ... we have 2 really good tickets + parking pass for England V Argentina (Gate B West Lower L7 row 2 seats 309/310). Paid £40 per ticket + £35 for Tesco parking i.e £115. Part of a reduced price w'chair package (these 2 tickets are 'proper' seats by the way), which is why the seats are not expensive but illness of w'chair user has meant we can't go. Anyone like to take them off our hands??

[DickyP]

I thinks it's great that they are giving the reserve front row a go!
And now having been facetious there is actually a lot of sense in the line up.

I always bang on about combinations and I'd rather see Flood and BY on the bench than either one starting with Dickson or Farrell. Ditto with TY and Dan Cole who will be some impact when they come on. Also makes sense for Hartley to be throwing to Lawes and TY to Geoff Parling.

And Tigers to the core I may be but I'm delighted to see a Saint - Ben Foden in the XV - I'd always have him simply because he is so versatile and so very, very good. He's the first player of that standard since Austin Heally at his best. I personally think that Wade, good player though he may be, is the most over hyped newcomer ever!

[Jimmy Skitz]

2 Tigers will be starting, just on the "wrong" side, shame I was wanting to see Dan Cole battle Marcos as well

[SilebyTiger]

Marcos will destroy David Wilson + co

[Jimmy Skitz]

I thinks it's great that they are giving the reserve front row a go!
And now having been facetious there is actually a lot of sense in the line up.

I always bang on about combinations and I'd rather see Flood and BY on the bench than either one starting with Dickson or Farrell. Ditto with TY and Dan Cole who will be some impact when they come on. Also makes sense for Hartley to be throwing to Lawes and TY to Geoff Parling.

And Tigers to the core I may be but I'm delighted to see a Saint - Ben Foden in the XV - I'd always have him simply because he is so versatile and so very, very good. He's the first player of that standard since Austin Heally at his best. I personally think that Wade, good player though he may be, is the most over hyped newcomer ever!

so by that logic TY should lose his place if Parling breaks a leg just before the world cup then?

If thug Lawes cannot run a TY lineout he shouldn't be in the England set up

[DickyP]

I thinks it's great that they are giving the reserve front row a go!
And now having been facetious there is actually a lot of sense in the line up.

I always bang on about combinations and I'd rather see Flood and BY on the bench than either one starting with Dickson or Farrell. Ditto with TY and Dan Cole who will be some impact when they come on. Also makes sense for Hartley to be throwing to Lawes and TY to Geoff Parling.

And Tigers to the core I may be but I'm delighted to see a Saint - Ben Foden in the XV - I'd always have him simply because he is so versatile and so very, very good. He's the first player of that standard since Austin Heally at his best. I personally think that Wade, good player though he may be, is the most over hyped newcomer ever!

so by that logic TY should lose his place if Parling breaks a leg just before the world cup then?

If thug Lawes cannot run a TY lineout he shouldn't be in the England set up

There you go Jimmy - stretching my attempt to show there was some merit (albeit not a lot) in the changes to illogical extremes. I might add that I too am unimpressed by Lawes's control of the line-out last weekend. I also add that of the 4 TY line-outs that went astray only one was really down to him - the other three went into the hands of the jumpers and then out again. It's not as though Hartley has better throwing stats than TY anyway - and we at Welford Road have seen him have a couple of shockers when Saints have visited.

Trying to be rational again I do think it is important that other players on whom we depend should not spend their entire careers sitting on the bench with occasional 10-20 minute stints, and do need some actual starts. That is why I'd have liked to seen the Toby Flood/Ben Youngs combination start this weekend.

It seems to be a truism that when good players are involved whoever comes on as a sub normally seems to be better than the player they replace: we always used to see this with Dan Cole and Martin Castrogiovani.

[BJ.]

Any stato's out there that can tell us when an England XV last took the field without a Tigers play in the starting line-up (excluding) the B team tours in Lions years.

I'm open to correction but I think it was the first Test in the 2008 tour to New Zealand. The England line-up was:

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins)
14 Topsy Ojo (London Irish)
13 Mike Tindall (Gloucester)
12 Olly Barkley (Bath)
11 David Strettle (Harlequins)
10 Charlie Hodgson (Sale)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (Sale)
1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale)
2 Lee Mears (Bath)
3 Matt Stevens (Bath)
4 Tom Palmer (Wasps)
5 Steve Borthwick (c) (Bath)
6 James Haskell (Wasps)
7 Tom Rees (Wasps)
8 Luke Narraway (Gloucester)

Replacements:
16 David Paice (London Irish)
17 Tim Payne (Wasps)
18 Ben Kay (Leicester)
19 Joe Worsley (Wasps)
20 Danny Care (Harlequins)
21 Jamie Noon (Newcastle)
22 Mathew Tait (Newcastle)

[waster]

Tom Youngs on bench after the birth of his child http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/205107.html

Congratulations to the Youngs family on the birth of their daughter!

[iceman_19]

The excitement level is starting to rise now - I felt deflated yesterday after hearing Wade and Yarde are out. But this is a great opportunity to ensure our 'backup' props are up to scratch and to build some fluency in the midfield and halfbacks, where the real issues arose last week. Plus the bench looks mightily impressive (Care stepping in for Youngs doesn't sacrifice much...aside from a sensible haircut) too. Four test Lions to bring on as well.


My preview, predictions and highlights of the last encounter are here: http://www.ruckedover.blogspot.com