England V's Argentina

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TigerLad
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by TigerLad »

I'm not sure about players fitness but surely the Argentina game would have been the perfect chance to blood Burrell and/or Eastmond in the centres. I don't rate Tomkins at all, he is slow, not particularly strong and doesn't have a kicking game. Other than being a decoy runner I don't remember him doing anything of any worth, I don't understand why you wouldn't give Eastmond a chance because it is quite clear that Tomkins isn't good enough. On a side note I am finding the medias portrayal of Wilsons performance hilarious. They all seem to be saying that Wilson had a fantastic game and has put himself in prime position to start next week. Until the front row was changed I would say that the Argie scrum was dominant, but maybe that's just me. To be fair I think rankings are given too much attention, if you're going on rankings then Samoa are a better team than Ireland and England are better than Wales. Rankings can be massively distorted by teams fixtures which is why they are irrelevant really.
I'd also start Wade/Yarde (whoever is fit) ahead of Ashton, the argument that they are too inexperienced is a load of rubbish. At worst they miss a tackle or mess up a try scoring opportunity, Ashton has done both of these in the last two games. At best they have a great game and score a try from nothing which they are both capable of. I just don't think Ashton can create a chance for himself and without Flood or Tuilagi to track he won't be getting any easy run ins after a line break. It's becoming beyond farcical that Wade isn't being given a chance. He can't be any worse than Ashton!
tig1
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by tig1 »

Agreed, so you should look at the trend in rankings over a period of time.
2 years and more than 20 games is enough to be sure that Englands trend is up since Lancaster took over.

The England pack were excellent first half. They battered a very strong and experienced Argie pack, and Wilson did just fine.

Wade was selected and injured himself in training.
jgriffin
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by jgriffin »

The Argentines were utterly knackered, their defence looked tired, you could go on about it all from a rugby players point of view, but until the whole thing blows up some will go on being complacent. Outside of those taking the media coin, very few non-English players apparently think England are any good (say some NZ mates).
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fortysix
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by fortysix »

England forwards are world class..
England Management is second class.
England backs are third World.

BUT come a big World Cup match England are mentally better than any of the other Home Nations and this alone is worth a head start.
the stig
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by the stig »

England beat the Aussies I dont care what anyone says any side thats beats the Aussies are a good side the pumas have improved tons and given the rugby championship sides a good game so while both games werent best pleasing on the eye they were both good wins. England have only lost badly once under Lancaster and that was to Wales where on that day they were better but they have been building under one of the best coaches in the world since 2008, they still can't beat the big three and think they have one win in 23 attempts against them, yes the beat England good and proper in the 6 nations but that doesnt make them leaps and bounds better than us just a bad day at the office which will make them a better team in the future, god we did the same to the All Blacks and no one would say we are better than them, front up against them and I will be happy at worst 2 loses in a year isnt a bad return only the All blacks have a better record than that. keep building and hopefully we can have a great world cup in 2015 :smt023
Bill W (2)
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by Bill W (2) »

fortysix wrote:England forwards are world class..
England Management is second class.
England backs are third World.

BUT come a big World Cup match England are mentally better than any of the other Home Nations and this alone is worth a head start.
Concur
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mol2
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by mol2 »

The reality is England are an improving side.
They may well be short of the best sides like New Zealand largely because of weaknesses at fly half and inside centre. However the last year or so has seen progress. The backs are not as bad as some think. In Manu and Brown we have world class players.
Yes, they took a thumping against Wales. The defeat against Australia last Autumn was largely as a result of our back row failing to compete at the breakdown. It took a repeat of this in the 6N against Wales for this to be addressed.
A long way to go.
Bill W (2)
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by Bill W (2) »

mol2 wrote:A long way to go.
Just so!!

:smt023
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tigersnottingham
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by tigersnottingham »

We really need to find the right balance in the backs.

Wade and Yarde are the future on the wings. Ashton has been living on prior firm for far too long. He needs to be dropped, he's a negative on the pitch every game. Foden and May as cover

Twelvetrees is the answer next to Manu, he Isa well rounded player and a great foil. Allows Goode to be left out too as provides a secondary boot. Bsrritt and Eastmond can slot in.

Flood should start at 10 but that simply won't happen.

Brown is gbe best full back we have, Tait and Foden fantastic back Ups.

Ben Youngs is the standout 9. Prefer Dickson to Care.
leic
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by leic »

I just don't get Dickson? Yes he's a good club player but is he going to create anything at international level? Also feel our tigers boys are well out of favour with management and the press!
sapajo
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by sapajo »

leic wrote:I just don't get Dickson? Yes he's a good club player but is he going to create anything at international level? Also feel our tigers boys are well out of favour with management and the press!
Agreed Dickson is not an international 9. We are out of favour despite being Champions our injury list and table position means Saints are in the ascendency and that is not lost on Slancaster. So much for his often used but frankly crass references to players having "money in the bank" seems our players have spent theirs playing on the Lions Tour.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
MrPartridge
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by MrPartridge »

England were 5th in IRB standings when lancaster took over. They are now 3rd and can go 2nd with a victory next week. So i am not sure by what measure people think Lancaster is taking England backwards.
Well said that man! Like it or not, Lancaster and the management (including Farrell) have moved the team forward since they arrived and all without any truly world class players in the squad. Having watched the France v NZ game at the weekend the AB's are in a class of 1... but all those who don't like Lancaster will be saying a little prayer in favour of the AB's at the weekend... because if we beat them again where will that leave the anti-SL brigade?
G.K
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by G.K »

I think that it's good that he's cut out the nonsense of some of the players, evident in 2011 and improved the discipline and ethos of the squad, he's had some good results and some bad ones.

However like Johnson and Robinson before him Lancaster and Farrell have significant blind spots, especially ij the building of the team around a Saffas/Northern RL set of backs.

Whatever the IRB rankings indicate I personally would put England 5th at the moment behind the ABs, SA, France and Wales.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.
tigersnottingham
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by tigersnottingham »

Overall Lancaster has been good for England.

He has created a good spirit, a professionalism and got the pack playing very well.

I also can't overly criticise his consistancy with Farrell, sticking with a 10 is a good plan (although I do believe he has backed the wrong horse).

The issue is he sticks by the likes of Farrell and Ashton, but other positions are constantly chopped and changed.

I don't understand how Ashton is somehow still in credit yet the likes of Parling and Ben Youngs aren't.
jgriffin
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Re: England V's Argentina

Post by jgriffin »

The pack is playing well thanks to Wig, not Lancaster.

The backs are malfunctioning due to poor selection and odd tactics, down to Farrell and Catt, not Lancaster.

Lancaster just does the PR stuff. His mentor is Squeaky.

Says it all, really. :smt009
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Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
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