Referees

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Bill W (2)
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Referees

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:43 pm

Greg Garner appeared to referee todays match less than impartially.

This may be down to my red, white and green tinted spectacles.

Nonetheless, head RFU ref poncho Ed Morrison recently quit prematurely.

What needs to be done, and done quickly, to sort out the mess?
Still keeping the faith!

fentiger
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Re: Referees

Post by fentiger » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:57 pm

IMHO referees must be seen to be fair, by all sets of supporters plus the impartial. If they are not able to to so then they are not fit for purpose. The players and paying viewers, either at the game or on TV have a right to expect that.

The Boy Dave
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Re: Referees

Post by The Boy Dave » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:13 pm

This subject is a constant irritation.
I have seen some shockers at different levels already this season and it is still only mid September, oh dear!
I hope no-one is offended by this and I will apologize beforehand but I would bet money that most former players all know that one player as a youngster especially, whom never had a clue about the game of rugby. As hard as they tried or not and as much as the politically correct coaches tried to tell everyone to be patient and that one day it will click, he just didn't get it and became a ref. Not all are bad I know and there are some decent refs, but oh my word is it getting worse year on year at every level and the world is too PC mad to tell them that they are useless!
Last edited by The Boy Dave on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Referees

Post by Tigerbeat » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:15 pm

I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
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Re: Referees

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:37 pm

Ref's will get things wrong. Ref's will miss things.

I don't mind either of those, I just ask for consistency, as in, fairness and the laws applied equally to both teams.

Garner got things wrong today. He made decisions on incidents but then let the same things go unpunished for the other team. Therefore, in my humble opinion, he was poor and needs to be given strong corrective guidance.

Tom Youngs yellow carded for dragging down a maul, when, IMO, all he did was drive into the Bath maul, legally, after coming through the 'gate' - was it his fault that they were weak and allowed him through? Bath dragged down a Tigers attacking maul, nothing, no penalty, in fact iirc, Tigers got pinged again. In all honesty, Mulipola could have (should have?) received a second yellow card for an obvious pulling down of a Bath Maul in 2nd half - Garner and chums saw/did nothing.

Mele gets warned and penalised for reacting at the breakdown (it was originally our free kick iirc) - he was actually being held round the neck by Bath player (Webber?), evidenced by BT TV coverage. Dave Wilson 'reacts' in a similar situation later in game and Garner warns Bath, no penalty etc.

Mele pushes Stringer at a scrum, Stringer falls over his Flankers leg - penalty to Bath for pushing. Stringer regularly pushes Mele who doesn't fall over, no penalty. So did Stringer get the penalty because he fell over rather than for being pushed? (which is what scrum halves do to each other week in, week out)

Stringer feeds - free kick. Stringer feeds - nothing. Stringer feeds (ball almost between prop and flanker) nothing (and so on and so on). Mele feeds - free kick. Mele feeds - full penalty.

Logo yellow carded for failing to wrap arm / shoulder charge / high tackle on Atwood, who appeared to duck immediately prior to contact - not arguing too much about the card as I think it was borderline. Henson tackles players around the head - nothing.

There were other things but they would sound far too much like sour grapes :smt002

Garner was poor without doubt IMO. There has been no evident change in the standard of refereeing despite the 'promises' (implied) by those in the corridors of power. There should be stronger sanctions used for ineptitude. There should be transparency when it comes to referee (and assistants) assessment protocol. Where any team complains about an official for a specific incident then the RFU should publish their investigation, and conclusion, into it. Something along the lines of the Independent Police Complaints Commission might help - I said, along the lines of, not necessarily exactly the same and as intrusive. No doubt one exists (within RFU) but it doesn't appear transparent. Officials do get a rough deal sometimes, they can't see everything, sometimes there are many things going on and they have to pick one. We, and the media, often judge them with the benefit of hindsight and multiple views - which admittedly Refs also can now do but it holds up the game which no-one wants :smt002

The IRB rightly demand that club officials/players/spectators respect match officials, and they do have a devil of a job to do at times. But, in a similar vein, these incompetent, IMO, officials should also be made to respect the Laws of the game and pay the price when they become the centre of attention for the wrong reasons.
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Bill W (2)
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Re: Referees

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:49 pm

An honest assessment Whitecap.

So what is needed? A public assessment of the refs performance (de facto several weeks afrer the event). Or a private :censored:?

Here is the rub. And maybe this is why Ed Morrison has quit. Likely Garner knows he had a 'mare today - how does he improve? By his failings being published? By him reveiving advice?
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Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Referees

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:52 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
would he be allowed to ref a Tigers or Quins game if he reached that level?

Bill W (2)
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Re: Referees

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tigerbeat wrote:I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
would he be allowed to ref a Tigers or Quins game if he reached that level?

Why not? He could not be more biased than Garner!!

:smt003 :smt003 :smt003
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Re: Referees

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:01 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tigerbeat wrote:I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
would he be allowed to ref a Tigers or Quins game if he reached that level?

Why not? He could not be more biased than Garner!!

:smt003 :smt003 :smt003
I found myself doing a Dylan Hartley with Garner, thankfully I cannot get banned from my own front room

Bill W (2)
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Re: Referees

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote: I found myself doing a Dylan Hartley with Garner, thankfully I cannot get banned from my own front room
Whoops. Not the f word in front of the children?? Ah no! Just a cheat??


:smt005
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fentiger
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Re: Referees

Post by fentiger » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:07 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tigerbeat wrote:I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
would he be allowed to ref a Tigers or Quins game if he reached that level?
I understand that one W Barnes Esquire is under the pay of the firm of Lawyers behind Harlequins (also employ Brian Moore I believe) :smt002

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Referees

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:08 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote: I found myself doing a Dylan Hartley with Garner, thankfully I cannot get banned from my own front room
Whoops. Not the f word in front of the children?? Ah no! Just a cheat??


:smt005
No children so its just the dog

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Referees

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:09 pm

fentiger wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tigerbeat wrote:I heard that Will Skinner is in the process of becoming a ref!

:smt023
would he be allowed to ref a Tigers or Quins game if he reached that level?
I understand that one W Barnes Esquire is under the pay of the firm of Lawyers behind Harlequins (also employ Brian Moore I believe) :smt002
He's a lawyer? I knew there is a reason I can't stand him

Bill W (2)
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Re: Referees

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:11 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Bill W (2) wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote: I found myself doing a Dylan Hartley with Garner, thankfully I cannot get banned from my own front room
Whoops. Not the f word in front of the children?? Ah no! Just a cheat??


:smt005
No children so its just the dog

The dog would understand!!

:smt023 :smt023
Still keeping the faith!

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Referees

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:15 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Bill W (2) wrote: Whoops. Not the f word in front of the children?? Ah no! Just a cheat??


:smt005
No children so its just the dog

The dog would understand!!

:smt023 :smt023
He just hides lol

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