Heineken Cup no nearer a resolution

[jgriffin]

Since this is seemingly an Irish snipe-fest, may I point out that their dead hand on the rugby OUTSIDE of Ireland's immediate interest was and remains one of the reasons to be pessimistic about the future of rugby in the NH.

Since most posters on here seem to be champions of free enterprise, their enthusiasm for the closed shop seems febrile to say the least.

To repeat - it is a battle between two sets of pigs over a trough large enough for all, simply because one set want most of the trough to themselves, as do the other set.

[biffer]

Since this is seemingly an Irish snipe-fest, may I point out that their dead hand on the rugby OUTSIDE of Ireland's immediate interest was and remains one of the reasons to be pessimistic about the future of rugby in the NH.

Since most posters on here seem to be champions of free enterprise, their enthusiasm for the closed shop seems febrile to say the least.

To repeat - it is a battle between two sets of pigs over a trough large enough for all, simply because one set want most of the trough to themselves, as do the other set.

I'm not Irish

[mol2]

Looks like no Europe for Tigers next year.
Possibly a good thing for England as the players will get more rest.

Will the Anglo-Welsh cup take on more significance?

Ultimately Europe needs the English teams more than the English teams need Europe financially.

None of the parties has shown any consideration for the fans!

As a fan I would not be happy to see the demise of club rugby. However I don't feel that it is a good thing for clubs to be playing in a tournament where some of the teams are regional development squads, to an extent constructed and developed to the detriment of club rugby. Some of those regions may bear the name of former clubs but they are really constructs put together to help ensure success in the H Cup or as development teams for national sides.

As I heard someone say at the recent match against Ospreys - "Who are Ospreys?" We knew who Neath were, we knew who Swansea were.
Are Leinster really a club any more?

Don't get me wrong I don't want to go back to the (sh)amateur era but there was always going to be a falling out with the existing cup setup.

[snipewatson]

I just wonder, do the PRL have a hidden exit clause and that is why the BT contract was shrouded in such secrecy. No RCC, no contract?

[biffer]

I just wonder, do the PRL have a hidden exit clause and that is why the BT contract was shrouded in such secrecy. No RCC, no contract?

I'd be surprised if there wasn't. I can't believe that any sports lawyer worth their salt wouldn't write something like that in, but it all depends on whether or not you take the word of McCafferty.

[G.K]

Well Tigers will just have to make sure they win the HC this year and we're not going to give it back, this means you'll have no trophy next year so there

[Pellsey]

"And, as Leicester Tigers chief executive Simon Cohen explained, whatever happens during the manoeuvring and politicking over the next few months, there is no turning back."We have given notice to exit the ERC-run competition and our BT Sport contract means we cannot go back into an ERC-run competition," he said."Even if we could, we would have little interest in putting ourselves back in a position which caused so much resentment. Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Insid ... z2lNx4yL4X"

Could it not be that no English clubs would be willing to play under the ERC anyway, even if the BT werent signed. There was no intention of playing under the ERC in any case. The BT contract would not matter anyway....

[h's dad]

Two questions I’d like your thoughts on. Sorry if they’ve been previously addressed but the amnesia has kicked in and 74 pages is a lot to wade through.

Assuming it is a possibility, is the PRL (financially at least) better off taking the BT money and staying out of the HC or foregoing the BT money and going back into the HC?

If PRL cannot/will not rejoin HC under ERC, what can’t the RCC competition include SA and other upper tier teams – I’d have thought this a serious commercial rival to an HC without England?

[Cardiff Tig]

Assuming it is a possibility, is the PRL (financially at least) better off taking the BT money and staying out of the HC or foregoing the BT money and going back into the HC?

The problem is no one has ever stated how much of the £152 million BT deal is for just the premiership and how much was dependent on the RCC. To my knowledge it has never been published.

[snipewatson]

Two questions I’d like your thoughts on. Sorry if they’ve been previously addressed but the amnesia has kicked in and 74 pages is a lot to wade through.

Assuming it is a possibility, is the PRL (financially at least) better off taking the BT money and staying out of the HC or foregoing the BT money and going back into the HC?

If PRL cannot/will not rejoin HC under ERC, what can’t the RCC competition include SA and other upper tier teams – I’d have thought this a serious commercial rival to an HC without England?

South Africa? Thought I'd wandered onto Sorries site there.
There would be nothing to stop the PRL joining with any other union to create an entirely new RCC. Assuming that the IRB would sanction it and I don’t see why they wouldn’t.
The problem would be that another union or unions would have to permit their teams to join and since the rest of the major unions appear to control their representative teams in a similar way to the Pro12 unions, I’d suggest there is little to no prospect of that happening. No union in their right mind will surrender control in the way the RFU have. There is no chance of governance being ceded to privately owned clubs.

[G.K]

I don't think Governance (i.e. the officials, refs, discipline etc.) in that sense is the big issue but rather it's who controls the commercial aspects of the tournament, the French and English clubs clearly want greater controls over that aspect.

[mol2]

There is more to this than the squabble over the European cup between the relevant countries.
There is also the battle for who controls professional rugby in England and France. Is it the clubs or is it the respective Unions?

(In the other countries it is not a contest as the clubs rely on their unions for a great part of their funding) In England and France many of the clubs are self financing via TV and sponsorship to such an extent they don't wish to have their destiny controlled by the RFU or its French counterpart for the the monies the respective unions provide.

I think this is the first real battle for power over the English professional game. Europe is probably the only card the RFU have and they have to decide whether they play it against the PRL or accept their only real future is working in partnership with the clubs.

The RFU have to wake up and accept that their approach isn't doing much for the clubs or England. 2003 was a long time ago. A lot more money could be coming into the England/club/RFU coffers if the RFU had been more decisive over the 5/6N. The Celtic biased BBC sports coverage (as someone who is Welsh by birth I can state that with a foot in both camps) puts a lot of cash into the 6N. However Sky would have paid way more for the rights to cover England's home matches. None of the other nations complain about France selling its TV rights to home games, yet they did when England wanted to.
Somewhat hypocritical.

[bluntiger]

There is a slice of hypocracy in PRL's position. Their issue with regard to Europe is in respect of qualification criteria for the HC and the disproportionate distribution of money which penalises both the English and French clubs.

Yet, when they receive the money from the RFU for the EPS members what do they do with it? The distribute it disproportionately! So that clubs who contribute no players to the EPS get the same money as clubs who contribute many players.

[welshy08]

I am just glad the good guys won in the end.

Always good to see.

All of the little complaints the English had and they moaned about..on every forum available to them..were finally exposed as just a smokescreen.

The ERC caved on every single one...and only then the true intentions were revealed.
The PRL had no intention (even back in 2012 when it signed the deal) of negotiating.
It just wanted control.
To call the shots.
You may think that would have been a victory for free enterprise..but it would have been a victory for greed, ego, arrogance lying dishonesty and spite.

But I will let the PR departments tell you what to think...

[Phil B]

any rumours in France about who Camou's 5 clubs are, other than Toulon and Biarritz?

Have no information.