Heineken Cup no nearer a resolution

[Greenfields]

As a big Tigers fan I hope that there are some of us following this who will have loved the trip to Ulster and look forward to the game against the Italians this weekend. I for one get a bit more excited about these than same old Wasps, Quins etc... We agreed to help develop the European game and now because a few millionaires are getting stiff over watching their pet rugby players we risk destroying what has been achieved. Did anyone really enjoy watching the millionaires in Toulon against Glasgow apart from their conceding the four second half tries! This is where we risk going with only a couple of millionaire sides in France and England oh and guess what? After they have all had their little excitement and smiling Ali Williams and Bakkies have banked their money and retired we will be left to rebuild again with maybe only some English lads coming through again which may be no bad thing.

[fleabane]

Hi greenfields, and welcome to the forum.

It isn't about millionaires, it is about an unfair qualification system and share of the revenue. I know 43 pages are a lot to go through, but in the early ones, there are some good discussions around this point.

[Greenfields]

How many times have we not qualified and why do you want to take money from somebody else? Cant we get a decent Tigers side out without someone else's money? Again look at the rubbish Barbarians style game in Toulon last week compared to the real thing last Friday night.

[h's dad]

And many people look at that number and automatically think the game collapses.

But....even back in 2007/08 the English salary cap was still only 2.2 million. It's doubled in england in the last 7 years. And that was the pre economic crisis years.

Or look at it another way. When tigers went professional what was their playing budget ? My guess is maybe 1 million. So since then wages have gone up 400 percent. Whilst the national average wage has gone up only 50 percent. So rugby players on the Uk average have seen their salaries rise by maybe 8 x the average. In the Celtic nations and Ireland it is far higher multiple.

The problem sits entirely with those at the top of the game who have inflated wages.

I believe the going rate for a marquee player is around £250-400k. I wouldn't say that was an inflated amount for somebody who is among the very best at what they do and is for a relatively short, high risk, career span. I don't begrudge PL players their salaries.

[Cockatrice]

How many times have we not qualified and why do you want to take money from somebody else? Cant we get a decent Tigers side out without someone else's money? Again look at the rubbish Barbarians style game in Toulon last week compared to the real thing last Friday night.

I agree that last Fridays game is what the HEC should be all about it as you say it was the 'real thing' and from my perspective an enjoyable step up from the weekly RABO. I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs or who the winners or losers will be of any split but I do understand what many English fans have issues with.

In the olden days we just had the Inter PRO in Ireland and it was great to get along to the odd friendly against Scottish or English county sides when they visited. Love the HEC long may it continue even if that means some compromise.

[Phil B]

European Rugby is here to stay, no matter what. Whether the HC is replaced by some other Cup is irrelevant to me, as we will be playing sides from Europe, (and maybe, later on, elsewhere). Next year, the year after...whatever, this is simply a slight glitch which is bound to get sorted. Simples.

(Aperitifs have started, so optimistic!!)

[Bill W (2)]

European Rugby is here to stay, no matter what. Whether the HC is replaced by some other Cup is irrelevant to me, as we will be playing sides from Europe, (and maybe, later on, elsewhere). Next year, the year after...whatever, this is simply a slight glitch which is bound to get sorted. Simples.

I share your optimism - but fear there will be some significant collateral damage.

[fentiger]

Now the Toulon President has weighed in:

http://www.thescore.ie/toulon-heineken- ... 8-Oct2013/

[snipewatson]

When I suggested, several weeks ago, that the Celtic Regions/Provinces and indeed Unions faced financial oblivion without a European Competetion involving England and France I was greeted by scorn (and even abuse) by many.

Bill do you think the English and French clubs are any different?
The truth is we all need each other. If you think PRL has a sustainable business model capable of standing alone without European money you sir are a deluded fool. There are probably 6 or 7 English clubs that are financially sound and the rest range from the dodgy to the downright ridiculous.

The high horse riding, pejorative air with which you speak is what caused the reaction to your post.

Thank yoi for your insulting post which again demonstrates your total lack of understanding of the situtaion.

Some English (and French) clubs might be demoted due to financial problems. Othrtd will be promoted to take their place.

All Celtic Regions/Provinces/Unions face oblivion!

Both welcome and wrong in equal measure Bill and your subsequent posts simply underline my opinion of you...
You really are a greedy boy Bill. You hungrily gobble up every scrap of dross written in the press as long as is suits your version of the truth.

[Bill W (2)]

[ You hungrily gobble up every scrap of dross written in the press as long as is suits your version of the truth.

What is truth?

[biffer]

[ You hungrily gobble up every scrap of dross written in the press as long as is suits your version of the truth.

What is truth?

Generally I find it a good rule to exclude anything you write in that definition.

[Bill W (2)]

Generally I find it a good rule to exclude anything you write in that definition.

Fine!

So you believe that the Celtic Regions/Provinves/Unions can survive financially without a European competition;

You believe that absent a sponsor the "RABO" will generate sufficient revenue to sustain the teams involved;

You believe that six nations revenue will, of itself, be sufficient to maintain Celtic Regions/Provinces/

There is indeed a G*d!

[snipewatson]

Generally I find it a good rule to exclude anything you write in that definition.

Fine!

So you believe that the Celtic Regions/Provinves/Unions can survive financially without a European competition;

You believe that absent a sponsor the "RABO" will generate sufficient revenue to sustain the teams involved;

You believe that six nations revenue will, of itself, be sufficient to maintain Celtic Regions/Provinces/

There is indeed a G*d!

No club in any of the 6 nations can survive without the others.
All of us are dependent on European money to sustain our current organisations. If you believe anything else, you are a deluded fool.
If you believe French and English clubs can go it alone in a ‘champion’s cup’, you are a deluded fool.

I think this report could be a lot of hot air myself, but it may not.....
http://www.rugby365.fr/infos-clubs/toul ... 9200.shtml

[Bill W (2)]

you are a deluded fool.

Why do you have to resort to insults to show your arguments are so weak?


Ah of course - because your arguments are so weak and lack substance!

[drc_007]

I think this report could be a lot of hot air myself, but it may not.....
http://www.rugby365.fr/infos-clubs/toul ... 9200.shtml

So the Toulon president is objecting to the restrictions in the number of foreign players allowed in a team. I suspect he might find himself isolated on that topic.