NZ's amazing try v France

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MrPartridge
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NZ's amazing try v France

Post by MrPartridge » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:03 pm

Not sure if anyone has posted this - apologies if so.

Sheer class from the All Blacks v France at the weekend. Must be up there as one of the best tries ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KfwRQ38dxE

tig1
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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by tig1 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:10 pm

Lucky bounce... :smt001

You cant coach that, just brilliant.

yellow_balaclava_hunter
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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by yellow_balaclava_hunter » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:57 pm

Is that it?

Is that really the try that people think is amazing?

Disappointing more like and a clear indication of how much New Zealand get away with.

Should have been penalised at the scrum, committed multiple infringements at the ruck to gain possession, forward pass in the build up and then a lucky bounce.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by CitizenSmiff » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:30 pm

Have to agree with YBH, beautiful last offload but that's about all that was good about that try. From swinging arm tackles to knock-ons and a forward pass all it really demonstrates is the advantage that famous shirt gives the ABs.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:30 pm

yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:[F]orward pass in the build up and then a lucky bounce.
Actually, no. Referee took this to the TMO and they decided it was not forward; they had a few looks, too.
Progress requires that the fears of both sides be more fully aired, not that one side wins.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by MrPartridge » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:32 am

No pleasing some people.... what makes it a great try for me is that NZ were well ahead at the time and it came right at the end of the game. Other teams would have turned the ball over, driven a few times and kicked the ball off the park. It's not my favourite try ever but fair play to the sense of adventure showed by NZ. I'd be happy to see a try of that calibre at WR any time. :smt002

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by tig1 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 am

The greatest international try of all time IMHO would who have been disallowed in the modern game.

The final pass to Gareth Edwards for the Barbarians vs New Zealand from Quinell was massively forward.

It's odd to think how so many great sporting moments in the past would never have existed with the benefit of modern technology.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by yellow_balaclava_hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:32 pm

Skin_and_Muscle wrote:
yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:[F]orward pass in the build up and then a lucky bounce.
Actually, no. Referee took this to the TMO and they decided it was not forward; they had a few looks, too.
There are numerous occasions when the TMO gets it wrong including in the Lions game today where the TMO by his reasoning for not giving a forward pass (The players hands didn't move forward) showed that he did not know the laws of the game.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:29 pm

yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:
Skin_and_Muscle wrote:
yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:[F]orward pass in the build up and then a lucky bounce.
Actually, no. Referee took this to the TMO and they decided it was not forward; they had a few looks, too.
There are numerous occasions when the TMO gets it wrong including in the Lions game today where the TMO by his reasoning for not giving a forward pass (The players hands didn't move forward) showed that he did not know the laws of the game.
Forward pass is determined from the point of release. The initial hand movement was backwards, thus not a forward pass. The TMO knows the law.
Progress requires that the fears of both sides be more fully aired, not that one side wins.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by yellow_balaclava_hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Not according to IRB regulations. It is not the 'hand movement', it is the direction the ball travels out of the hand. Go and look at the example video from the IRB website where the players hands move backwards but the ball moves forwards and is adjudged to be a forward pass.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:57 pm

The example video given clearly shows a forward movement in the hands - they don't go across the body but out from it.

A forward pass is defined as a 'throw-forward' which is defined in relation to the movement of the player and his hands rather than the movement over the ground. If your definition of forward pass was the accepted definition, nearly every pass thrown at speed would be an illegal pass.
Progress requires that the fears of both sides be more fully aired, not that one side wins.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by yellow_balaclava_hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:54 pm

"throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

No mention of hands in there, merely that the ball goes forward. Therefore a TMO cannot adjudicate on whether a ball has been passed forward by the direction of the hands.

The video clearly shows the players hands going backwards not forwards yet the ball moves forwards and is adjudged to be a forward pass.

That argument (perpetuated by southern hemisphere exponents) that 'the majority of passes thrown at speed would be adjudged forward' is false and is not part of the regulations but an attempt by those in the southern hemisphere who want Rugby to become like basketball to limit the amount of scrums.

It is up to the player to make sure that his pass does not go forward when travelling at speed, if that means actively passing the ball backwards to counteract the forward motion of the player then they should do so.

This 'hands weren't moving forward' notion has crept into the game via Australia and New Zealand, it is not part of the laws and should not be used by a TMO or any other official especially not in a top level international.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:02 pm

yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:"throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

No mention of hands in there, merely that the ball goes forward. Therefore a TMO cannot adjudicate on whether a ball has been passed forward by the direction of the hands.

. . .

This 'hands weren't moving forward' notion has crept into the game via Australia and New Zealand, it is not part of the laws and should not be used by a TMO or any other official especially not in a top level international.
Your assertion may be accurate but that doesn't necessarily mean it is correct; remember the laws of the game are open to interpretation.

You state that it mentions a ball must not go forward. Technically, the law states the ball must not be thrown forward and those who are charged with interpreting the law have clearly stated their position on this matter (that if the hands move backwards, the ball has been thrown backwards).

P.s. if you're talking about this demonstration then he clearly flicks the ball forward after the initial dummy.
Progress requires that the fears of both sides be more fully aired, not that one side wins.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by yellow_balaclava_hunter » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:38 pm

Skin_and_Muscle wrote:
yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:"throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

No mention of hands in there, merely that the ball goes forward. Therefore a TMO cannot adjudicate on whether a ball has been passed forward by the direction of the hands.

. . .

This 'hands weren't moving forward' notion has crept into the game via Australia and New Zealand, it is not part of the laws and should not be used by a TMO or any other official especially not in a top level international.
Your assertion may be accurate but that doesn't necessarily mean it is correct; remember the laws of the game are open to interpretation.

You state that it mentions a ball must not go forward. Technically, the law states the ball must not be thrown forward and those who are charged with interpreting the law have clearly stated their position on this matter (that if the hands move backwards, the ball has been thrown backwards).

P.s. if you're talking about this demonstration then he clearly flicks the ball forward after the initial dummy.
I will quote the law again as you obviously didn't read it properly last time:

"throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

It is the ball going forward not the hands.

I am stating that it is wrong to re-interpret any law when they are quite clear. The re-interpretation of the laws by referees is the reason we get such inconsistent performances.

Making up a new law (that if the players hands go forward in a pass then it is a forward pass) is completely wrong. It is not in the current laws, there has been no official introduction of it and would be incorrect if introduced as a players hands can move backwards but the ball go forward and vice-versa.

Yes I am talking about the demonstration video in the link and the players hands clearly move backwards not forwards as he passes the ball.

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Re: NZ's amazing try v France

Post by Bill W (2) » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:06 pm

It is perfectly possible for the hands to go backwards and the ball to go forward. Just as it is possible for the hands to go forwards and the ball go backwards.

Nonetheless, the referee (and the TMO) are the sole arbiters of fact.

:smt003
Still keeping the faith!

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