So what's the Lions XV for Saturday? Read the runes.....

[Grimlish]

Will Crofty and Vunipola be the only non-'celtic' starters? Petty certain of that now. And also certain that nothing except fate has been allowed to rock the boat of some selections made before the tour - Phillips, AWJ, POC, Halfpenny, North, Sexton etc. Vunipola would not even be on the tour otherwise. Crofty may still not start.
I think you may get poor odds on a wholly Welsh/Irish starting XV for the First Test.

So jg which of Phillips, AWJ, POC, Halfpenny, North, Sexton would you leave out? Everyone of those selections can be justified on pure rugby grounds, nothing to do with politics as tb would have it. If playmakers in those positions set the mark for the 'combinations' that will work, doesnt it just make sense to go down that route?

Surely the last thing the Lions need is to look even more like a scratch side? They seemed to try that yesterday against Brumbies and it didnt seem to work then...

[Skin_and_Muscle]

I know Geechs has said he recommended Gats for the job, but when it was announced my interest in this tours evapourated. I am interested how our lads get on and hope they gain from the tour, but the results don't really bother me and I will be fishing on Saturday, not watching the game.
I've tried to get involved in the tour, but call me cynical, but there's more political sheenanigans going on than in the Houses of Parliament to me.

Though I'm getting a little fed up at the ridiculous advert that ends with Warburton 'roaring', it does bring up two issues. First, butterflies; I expect to feel them as a fan. I have done on every previous lions tour and every Leicester game I have ever watched but they have been curiously absent from this tour. Second, he may be softly spoken but there's something in McGeechan that is absent from Gatland and that's a real sense of passion about the Lions. The things he says about the Lions and the way he leads his tours demonstrate that.

For me, the result of this tour matters. If we don't win then I have got nothing from this tour at all. Compare that to 2009, which was one of the most enjoyable rugby events I've ever watched, when it ultimately didn't matter that we lost it.

[jgriffin]

Will Crofty and Vunipola be the only non-'celtic' starters? Petty certain of that now. And also certain that nothing except fate has been allowed to rock the boat of some selections made before the tour - Phillips, AWJ, POC, Halfpenny, North, Sexton etc. Vunipola would not even be on the tour otherwise. Crofty may still not start.
I think you may get poor odds on a wholly Welsh/Irish starting XV for the First Test.

So jg which of Phillips, AWJ, POC, Halfpenny, North, Sexton would you leave out? Everyone of those selections can be justified on pure rugby grounds, nothing to do with politics as tb would have it. If playmakers in those positions set the mark for the 'combinations' that will work, doesnt it just make sense to go down that route?

Surely the last thing the Lions need is to look even more like a scratch side? They seemed to try that yesterday against Brumbies and it didnt seem to work then...

To play a high tempo game YBY not Phillips (slow at the base of rucks) Parling not POC (secure lineouts), OTY (best hooker on the park) and Croft (see lineouts). However I expect Phillips, POC, Hibbard and possibly Croft on the bench. Until it goes pear-shaped.

[Grimlish]

[quote=jgriffin]To play a high tempo game YBY not Phillips (slow at the base of rucks) Parling not POC (secure lineouts), OTY (best hooker on the park) and Croft (see lineouts). However I expect Phillips, POC, Hibbard and possibly Croft on the bench. Until it goes pear-shaped.[/quote]

So those are all rugby choices. They are not the same as mine - YBY didnt play well yesterday albeit in difficult circumstances, POC has had huge impact when he's come on, OTY wasnt in your original list. But they are rugby choices, not based on a bizarre conspiracy theory about Celtic mysticism, Gat's NZ heritage or whatever. We may not like the choices he makes (its his head not ours) but I think he's making choices based on the rugby he sees and wants. I just hope he gets those calls right.

[Cardiff Tig]

I'm suprised by the uproar caused by the Brumbies game - in the other lions tests that I can remember the Tuesday game before the first test was always a give away as to who was likely to start at the weekend, and has always been a weaker side because of it. The fact is the pack against the Brumbies was woeful, and it was hardly a weak pack on paper - apart from Stevens the others were all decent players - and the back row was arguably as good as the one that was picked for last Saturday. The injuries to the centres was hardly Gatlands fault, although the 10 situation is definitely one thing I will blame him for.

The players that seemed to have been picked for the test seem to be a fair enough choice to me - Parling may well be a great line out option but POC is hardly weak in that area and is a better player around the park IMO.

[Will S]

I think a fair few English lads should be starting. MV will start (I would actually prefer Corbs with MV coming on when the game breaks up a bit) along with OTY and Crofty. YBY I think is a better 9 than Philips and I don't think Philips has done much on tour to impress (I agree Ben wasn't great on Tuesday but no 9 would shine behind that forward performance!). If fit I would also go Manu at 12. JD and BOD have both been outstanding on tour but they are both out and out 13's. You could make a case for either of these guys starting at 13 but whichever one you choose having a ball carrying 12 would benefit. It is vital to keep getting across the gain line and if we don't have the players to do this we will really suffer. Manu and BOD looked really good when they played together. On another note have Davis and BOD actually played together this tour?

[G.K]

If the pick was on ability and form rather than favourtism then Corbseiro, Youngs, Cole, Parling, Youngs and Zebo would be starting, along with Croft.

More likely to be Vunipola, Youngs, Jones, POC, Phillips and Cuthbert, along with Croft.

[fleabane]

Youngs gets the nod over Hibberd:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... ooker.html

Foy often gets the news first, so here's hoping!

[Bill W (2)]

Youngs gets the nod over Hibberd:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... ooker.html

Foy often gets the news first, so here's hoping!

If he goes for Youngs hes has to go for Parling and Croft!!

[iceman_19]

For me, not having Tuilagi/Roberts available is more of an issue. Gatland wants a centre to run straight lines and fix at least 2 defenders - Davies is no weakling but he won't attract that kind of attention. Like Twelvetrees, he can handle himself on the crash (although it didn't go too well on Tuesday) but his strengths are elsewhere - namely picking good support lines, and using footwork and a fend to make his yards.

It's harsh, but if Tuilagi is fit, I'd start him at 12 - just because I think he may well excel if he's faced with O'Connor and debutant Lealiifano.

My view on the Starting XV is here: http://www.ruckedover.blogspot.com

[tig1]

I think WG in the end has got the 23 about right. There is no great conspiracy theory. The 2 unlucky guys are probably Tiporic and certainly O Brien. I think Lydiate is fortunate, but every coach has favourite players. WG is not alone in that for sure.

The only selection on form I personally would debate is Cuthbert, but other than that every player has done well enough to be selected.

I think the promotions of Corbisiero, Ty, and the late acknowledgement of Croft based on his display against NSW show how fair WG has been in selection ImO.

[Bristol Tiger]

Team up on BBC website here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22977651

Well done the Tigers!!! All bar Manu and I am sure that is due to injury.

Pretty consistent with the comments in this thread. Corbisiero over Vunipola perhaps harsh but Vunipola will make the better impact sub. Likewise Adam Jones over Dan Cole (but guess they had to have at least one Welshman in the front row ). O'Connell and Wyn Jones have been great together, but pleased to see Parling in the 23. Back row balanced and just hope Warburton plays to his full ability. Think Lydiate has been lucky on the bench - I would have had Tipuric.

Backs probably more of a concern. Phillips was always going to be starting but I think YBY has showed more on tour (bar Tuesday where it was obvious he wasn't starting in the test) - think Will Genia could make Phillips look a complete donkey in comparison. Sexton starting and Farrell on bench was the most obvious selection since the Lions squad was announced. BOC is pure class but I think Davies is there due to Roberts (1st choice) and Manu (2nd choice) injuries. Doesn't look balanced so will have to see how it goes. North our best winger but Cuthbert is lucky (IMHO). I would have had Zebo start. Maitland on the bench is even luckier as he has been poor on tour.

So ... Lions to be up by a small margin by 60minutes when they bring on those who know how to finish off a game and win in Aus!!!

[drc_007]

Sides

British & Irish Lions starting XV: Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Alex Cuthbert (Wales), Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland), Jonathan Davies (Wales), George North (Wales), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Mike Phillips (Wales); Alex Corbisiero (England), Tom Youngs (England), Adam Jones (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Paul O'Connell (Ireland), Tom Croft (England), Sam Warburton (Wales, capt), Jamie Heaslip (Ireland).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England), Dan Cole (England), Geoff Parling (England), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Ben Youngs (England), Owen Farrell (England), Sean Maitland (Scotland).
Australia starting XV: Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs); Israel Folau (NSW), Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW), Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies), Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds); James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels), Will Genia (Reds); Benn Robinson (NSW), Stephen Moore (ACT), Ben Alexander (ACT), James Horwill (Reds - capt), Kane Douglas (NSW), Ben Mowen (ACT), Michael Hooper (NSW), Wycliff Palu (NSW).
Replacements: Saia Fainga'a (Reds), James Slipper (Reds), S Kepu (NSW), Rob Simmons (Reds), Liam Gill (Reds) Nick Phipps (Rebels), Pat McCabe (ACT), Kurtley Beale (Rebels).

[Bunchy]

Gatland quoted as saying only Roberts and Bowe unavailable for selection - so Manu "not selected" rather than injured..

albeit you could claim not selected because of previous injury, but still...

[fleabane]

"After six matches we have arrived at the first Test and have selected our strongest possible side with only Jamie Roberts,Tommy Bowe and Manu Tuilagi unavailable for selection," Lions boss Warren Gatland said.