Brian Moore

[G.K]

Have to agree with Pitbull on this issue.

If it is wrong for players to abuse match officials on the pitch then it's also wrong for coaches to abuse them off the pitch. Two wrongs don't make a right.

We know the standard of reffing needs improvement but trying to bully and abuse match officials on and off the pitch is not the way to go.

Personally I want to watch Rugby and I'm getting very tired and bored of all this disent and bad language by players and coaches, both on and off the pitch.

As well as the Hartley and Cockers incidents we also had the Tigers physio mouthing off it seems and Lamb swearing and showing disent. Myler also seemed to also swear when Barnes awarded the scrum.

If they want to be professionals they need to start behaving like professionals and not loud mouthed yobs!

[h's dad]

Yes thanks for that one eyed view!
Regarding WB spat with Hartley, there had been previous between them and the rest is history!
On R.C's actions I simply take the view that if a hit is timed correctly then fair play. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not some wimp as I love to see a well timed big hit. It often annoys me to see defenders wimp out but do it right and there can be no doubt, do it wrong TWICE on the same player and people like me have every right to question the motive. Surely you can see this?

This forum is more likely to think the hits were wrong than anywhere else, yet even on this forum most seem to think they were good legal hits. Surely you can see this?

Incidentally I'm not a Lawes fan and think he has played poorly for his country. I am a fan of Flood and have been since he was at Newcastle. I also love to see a well timed big hit although I'd rather it wasn't on me as I freely admit to being some wimp.

[The Boy Dave]

This forum is more likely to think the hits were wrong than anywhere else, yet even on this forum most seem to think they were good legal hits. Surely you can see this?

Incidentally I'm not a Lawes fan and think he has played poorly for his country. I am a fan of Flood and have been since he was at Newcastle. I also love to see a well timed big hit although I'd rather it wasn't on me as I freely admit to being some wimp

I'm not sure about the forum to be honest. There seem's to be a lack of understanding for all parties. It seem's to be about showing up as many people as possible and ignoring the facts. Things happen in the heat of battle and you stand your ground and support your team as best you can. I think G.K is correct and maybe the weekend will be a tipping point for people to be better behaved in the future but it will need the participation of all sides to achieve the correct level of respect.
Talking of wimps I had a promising football career ended by a late challenge. The player who done me was also on his way before I passed the ball and perhaps this is why I feel getting your timing right is the most important factor in attempting a tackle. No-one is perfect!

[h's dad]

... Things happen in the heat of battle and you stand your ground and support your team as best you can.

Absolutely 100% right and I've been incandescent at actions or decisions more than a few times but so often when looking at the tape afterwards just find myself saying maybe it wasn't so bad or maybe the ref got it right after all. Also I think RC has maybe a little more responsibility than the rest of us.

I think G.K is correct and maybe the weekend will be a tipping point for people to be better behaved in the future but it will need the participation of all sides to achieve the correct level of respect.

I hope so, although I don't know if it will be a tipping point as I'm sure we can all recall matches where conduct has been much worse.

[MurphysLaw]

It has been a tactic of Saints in many of their recent games against Tigers to 'upset' our halfbacks with big hits, blocks, laying on after tackles etc. (Before the game someone on this forum, or the unoffy, was asking which one would be in the the treatment this time). Some of these tactics have been borderline legal at best, and I think Saturday was another example.
Of course big 'hits' are now part of the game, and as long as they are the right side of the laws, we all like to see them put in. However, there is a fine line to this approach which defines whether it is a legitimate or bulleyboy tactic. Whichever it was on Saturday, it succeeded in forcing Floody off the pitch.
While this does not in itself condone Cockers outburst (and i would like to see him act in a more 'controlled' manner), it does perhaps make his immediate reactions understandable when he is watching his player being hurt.

[Brookfield]

Whilst not condoning RC's approach to the 4th official a reasonable man may actually understand why he made his point forcefully when his captain and key playmaker appeared to be poleaxed by a foul challenge, for which a penalty was awarded, and there was no recourse to the tmo. Furthermore this "tackle" by Courtney Lawes was merely the latest in a disturbing sequence of Saints players seeking to injure Tiger's players by fair means or foul. Perhaps Brian Moore can express his opinion next Monday as to why Saints teams appear to be intent on injuring Tigers and why they they have such disciplinary problems despite their highly regarded coaching duo?

[Linemakers]

R C was complaining that if it was a late tackle ( a penalty was awarded by Barnes for a late tackle) why if the player was injured (Flood) wasn't it a yellow card given or the incendent looked at by the TMO to see if a yellow card was required or not.

[Bill W (2)]

R C was complaining that if it was a late tackle ( a penalty was awarded by Barnes for a late tackle) why if the player was injured (Flood) wasn't it a yellow card given or the incendent looked at by the TMO to see if a yellow card was required or not.

That indeed is the question.

We do not have an answer.

[beech]

Perhaps the people who are accusing Cockerill of abusing the 4th official would tell us what he said as I have not seen any indication as to what was said. I am certain that if the 'abuse' was anything like Hartley's comment we would have seen Cockerill cited. As he was not I can only assume that the officials did not take offence - unlike Brian Moore.

[Bundy]

I know Cockers is hardly an angel and has gone over the top before but from what I have seen and heard I am struggling to see what he has done which is so wrong? No evidence that he used any abusive language??!! Is he not allowed to talk to the 4th official even if he was forceful?

[iceman_19]

I think Cockerill is a nice target for a lot of opposition fans. He pulls no punches, doesn't mince his words, is utterly committed to the Tigers (and nobody likes us, remember) and has an unshakeable desire to win.

That said, I do think that he needs to come up with a system that allows him to vent without shouting in the face of an official - right or wrong, it is not a good image for the game. Paul Burke - or even Geordan Murphy (who knows the refs pretty well!) - has a calmer personality and might be better placed to advance arguments than Cockers himself. In this instance, I can understand some of the (exaggerated) uproar.

Must be a hooker thing! (Not putting Cockerill's actions in the same bracket as Hartley's, mind)

My review and player ratings of the game is here: http://www.ruckedover.blogspot.com

[Smurphswillgetya]

How is asking the question (all be it in a heated way) why the tmo was not consulted after a penalty is awarded to see if further sanctions are required abusing the officials? Surely Cockers had a right to ask this as this is how the tmo has been used this season.

The second tackle was fine but the first one was deemed late by the touch judge. You could also argue that it was a dangerous tackle as he flew into the tackle and therefore out of control and would not have been able to pull out of it if he wanted to. Can you imagine the fuss if Manu had done the same on Myler he would have been accused of being a reckless South Sea Islander.

[Bill W (2)]

I know Cockers is hardly an angel and has gone over the top before but from what I have seen and heard I am struggling to see what he has done which is so wrong? No evidence that he used any abusive language??!! Is he not allowed to talk to the 4th official even if he was forceful?

I think Cockers did make liberal use of the Anglo Saxon.

However, I personally would forgive him for that. What is not forgiveable is that no way ny him berating the fourth official (or even Ed Morrison) was he going to get the decision changed, So his antics were always going to be a total waste of time and mere histrionics.

My opinion only of course.

[kend]

This forum is more likely to think the hits were wrong than anywhere else, yet even on this forum most seem to think they were good legal hits. Surely you can see this?

IMHO there is a misunderstanding here - a late tackle is a late tackle. There is no mitigation for being committed or 'in the air', it remains the tacklers responsibility to ensure they don't hit late. The onus isn't on the ball carrier to pass earlier!

Penalty was the right call, the mitigation was no card. However, us be honest here, as a player you know exactly what you are about, and IMHO Lawes went out to hit Flood as hard as he could whether he had the ball or not. I think one of the commentators said that 'Lawes had got away with one', and I think that's about right.

[RWA]

No word from any of the officials on Cockers' behaviour then ? Lots of comments from half of Northampton and a smattering of ex-players, but nothing from the 4th official, or Ed Morrison for that matter, who felt the need to get involved. Whilst it doesn't sit well having your DoR swearing and ranting on the touchline, I love the passion and his willingness to protect his players. Mallinder and West sat in the stands like Hinge and Brackett muttering to each other, perhaps they should have shown a bit of passion themselves, but West chose the easy way out through the ESPN half-time interview.

One other comment, season after season we get the "rugby isn't like football, we show respect to officials and to fellow players" rubbish. We need to be very careful, Barnes chose to red card Hartley but this isn't the first instance of a rugby player swearing at the ref, I've heard it numerous times on the ref's microphone, I guess some referees let these things go. We've had a player breaking another player's arm and numerous gouging, trips and other unsavoury incidents. Sure, they shake hands at the end of a game, but so do footballers.