England Squad for Argentina

[TTRITH]

Dissappointed Thompstone, Tait and Kitchener have missed out.

Kind of expecting Allen to miss the run in now, which is a blow!

[Jay C]

Only 1 fly half (Burns) and only 1 inside centre (12trees) but three options for every other position on the pitch .... ???

Very disappointed that Kitch isn't in the squad, but pleased for Slater, who is developing into a right good 'un

And does this signal the end of Waldrom's international career ?

[Cardiff Tig]

Goode was injured when Farrell started getting game time at 10. He'd started about 4 games from 7 for Sarries, sharing with Hougaard. First Hougaard got injured, and then Goode, and then Nils Mordt got a go, and then eventually Farrell. By the time Goode returned from injury 2 months later, Farrell was in place.

Goode was pretty average in a televised match (london double header), played well the following week against Sale, missed a couple of games with injury, came back and played fullback for a couple of games, shifted to fly-half for a couple of games (don't recall them - they weren't on TV) and then was out injured again.

There's something of a myth that he was a poor FH and was displaced by Farrell, but it's not actually true. He wasn't a stand out in the position (but wasn't bad), and when he came back the combination of Farrell's decent form and an injury to Chris Wyles meant that the 10/15 dilemma was actually a bit of a no-brainer.

Fair enough, think my view was only from a couple of games on TV that I saw and wasn't overly impressed! Seems like there may be a problem in the future at 10 if Ford and Clegg don't quite develop to the expected levels that were/are being suggested.

[jgriffin]

If this is Lancaster's new direction it will be very interesting. To me there is a very jumbled look to the squad and some odd selections - it seems SL has his mind made up about some players regardless of form or proven weakness.

[tigerburnie]

If this is Lancaster's new direction it will be very interesting. To me there is a very jumbled look to the squad and some odd selections - it seems SL has his mind made up about some players regardless of form or proven weakness.

Whilst I would have picked more Tigers for this squad, I cannot see any "proven weakness" players, couple of them have been off form like Foden for example. The uncapped "new" players all look pretty reasonable for a tour like this. I'm guessing most will not be in the EPS for the AI's, looks like a chance for some to step up and for some, a chance to show they still have something.

[mol2]

Foden has only recently returned from injury and probably explains lack of form so giving him the opportunity to get some international games in is probably sensible.

The interesting omission for me is Ashton. Has he dropped off the radar entirely as he hasn't exactly looked worn out in the way Robshaw has?

[Jay C]

I cannot see any "proven weakness" players. The uncapped "new" players all look pretty reasonable for a tour like this. I'm guessing most will not be in the EPS for the AI's, looks like a chance for some to step up and for some, a chance to show they still have something.

I assume you mean that most of the uncapped players will not be in the EPS for the AIs (rather than most of the touring party!), as the rest of this squad are all in the EPS already - except for JG's "proven weakness" players.... eg/ Paice, who is keeping the seat warm until Tom Youngs return - and similarly Attwood for Parling.

Other interesting match ups (for the next Elite squad) are :
1. Buchanan v Webber for third choice hooker (if there is room in EPS for 3 - see point 5)
2. Doran Jones trying to prove he's better than Wilson as Cole's deputy (and/or ahead of Marler ?)
3. Slater challenging Clark ( ) for his EPS spot (pleeeease!)
4. Kvesic as a viable open side & Vunipola as an England 8 (Haskell/Waldrom places at risk here)
5. Wigglesworth or Dickson as third choice scrum half (probably only 1 place for 3rd hooker/scrum half too - see point 1)
6. Tomkins v Joseph v Eastmond at centre (currently one EPS place available)
7. Wade v May v Strettle on the wing (currently one EPS place available)
8. Foden v Brown v Goode - who is our first choice full back ?
9. Re the last three points - currently only 5 back three players in EPS, with three full backs - is there a better combination ?
10. Last but by no means least = who will be captain for the AIs - Wood or Robshaw ????

[youngtiger]

Good post Jay C
2. Is Marler not a loosehead?
3. I agree with jg for this example, Slater by far the form player, Clark is there because he has a relationship with SL.
4. Really hoping they get a good chance and go well. Big for England's future.
5. Bit uneasy about the lack of experience at half-backs, especially considering the average standard and age of this pair.
6. Hoping it's Joseph, as Tomkins seems to be without JJ's flair/skill.
7. Anyone reckon Yarde has a chance?
8. Hopefully we'll try an alternative to Goode at 15.
9. Hopefully a couple of the wings will prove themselves.
10. Could well transpire that neither are looking at a starting place for the AIs.

[mol2]

I just hope they play Brown at full back.
Along with Tait (who's not been picked) he's the form full back who has looked uncomfortable on the wing and is wasted being played there by England.

I'm not sure that Tait has been noticed by Lancaster who seems entranced by Goode. In some ways that may be good for Tait to gain a little more experience in his new role at full back before returning to international rugby where his talents if not his injury record suggest he should be.

[Bristol Tiger]

I think Lancaster likes to play with a second receiver, which is why Goode was consistently selected at full-back (with Barritt at 12). With Twelvetrees, it will hopefully free up the full-back position to give both Ben Foden and Mike Brown a good crack.

Thinking about it, Tait is developing as a second receiver but also offers all the attacking threat in hand that Brown and Foden offer ...but selfishly speaking, glad he is being given time to rest so sharp and fresh for us next season!

[kpj tiger]

Thinking about it, Tait is developing as a second receiver but also offers all the attacking threat in hand that Brown and Foden offer ...but selfishly speaking, glad he is being given time to rest so sharp and fresh for us next season!

To be fair i was pleasantly surprised with how Tait played at 12 against LI, he really is coming on in leaps and bounds at Tigers

[Bill W (2)]

I can see little logic in the selection. It must be far too subtle for my small brain!

[Jay C]

2. Is Marler not a loosehead?

My point was that if Doran Jones proves himself, then him and Wilson (who can play both sides) can cover Corbs/Vunipola on the loosehead side and Cole on the tighthead side, thus making Marler surplus to requirements in the EPS if both the others are retained......

Having said all of that - I fully expect Marler & Wilson to be retained - but with Doran Jones moving to Quins (which gets the press on your side even if it doesn't make you a better player ), then Wilson may be edged out by the 6N ....

Apart from at inside centre (and young scrum halves?), we appear to have plenty of options.
As I said previously - lots of interesting sub plots !

[youngtiger]

Not a big fan of Wilson personally, so would be happy to see Cole, Corbisiero, Doran Jones, Marler, Vunipola as our props next season.

[quote="Jay C"](and young scrum halves?)/quote]
The scrum-halves aren't actually young really, they'll be 30 and 32 years old respectively by the time of the world cup. They're both inexperienced at international level because they're both not good enough (at international standard) to have been picked consistently.

[youngtiger]

Not a big fan of Wilson personally, so would be happy to see Cole, Corbisiero, Doran Jones, Marler, Vunipola as our props next season.

[quote="Jay C"](and young scrum halves?)/quote]
The scrum-halves aren't actually young really, they'll be 30 and 32 years old respectively by the time of the world cup. They're both inexperienced at international level because they're both not good enough (at international standard) to have been picked consistently.