George Ford?

[os99]

Regardless of how talented a player is, no player is bigger than the club. Ford wanted game time without earning it.

[Smudge]

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Ford wanted game time without earning it.

How on earth can you say that? He has trained hard and is a highly dedicated player. For his age he is tremendous.

While he is not a prop, the coaches were able to keep four happy by rotating, both in matches and periods.

Even allowing for the fact that he is the play-maker he could have been rotated used much more.
TF has had an average season and two or three shockers, especially kicking out of hand. He is far from being a great player in the history of Leicester stand-off halves.
George was often used behind a weakened pack this season and consequently didn't get to shine in the way he could have behind our strongest eight.

[os99]

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Ford wanted game time without earning it.

How on earth can you say that? He has trained hard and is a highly dedicated player. For his age he is tremendous.

While he is not a prop, the coaches were able to keep four happy by rotating, both in matches and periods.

Even allowing for the fact that he is the play-maker he could have been rotated used much more.
TF has had an average season and two or three shockers, especially kicking out of hand. He is far from being a great player in the history of Leicester stand-off halves.
George was often used behind a weakened pack this season and consequently didn't get to shine in the way he could have behind our strongest eight.

I'm sure every professional player has "trained hard" regardless of how old they are. Ford's general play hasn't been bad when he's had his chance but his goal kicking has been woeful. We wouldn't even be in the top 4 if Ford had started all the games Flood has. Flood may not be the best kicker out of hand, but his goal kicking has improved massively this season. Also, I think it is difficult in rotating the half backs as you need continuity for the back line to function properly so whenever Youngs and Flood are fit they have to start. I would take Williams and Lamb over Ford any day.

[tigerburnie]

He has trained hard and is a highly dedicated player.

You are making presumptions again Smudge, how do you know that, do you come up from Hampshire every day to watch?

I am sure he did his level best, those who don't will not be at Tigers for long.
The fact is he was behind the then England first choice 10 and rightly so. You pick a team to win on ability, not on the presumption that some one might become a great player. Patience is something that was lacking and not just in George Ford.

[Smudge]

Oh come on Burnie, while I no longer live in Leicester I do go to most home matches and most of the aways in the south.
When I attend them I am talking to a host of friends and other former players who are involved in and around the club.
I am not guessing from afar (as you seem to be).We know a class player when we see one.
There is so much clap-trap written about young George it's mind numbing.
That so many want to write him off because he was getting so little game time at Tigers is more to do with their angst at any criticism of RC.
The contention of my friends and I is that he has not been looked after and developed as he should have been.
You might also consider that it is really only by Harry Ellis's bad luck that Ben Youngs is still here.
Can you imagine keeping him on the bench for weeks frustrated to hell?
It's called player management.

[northerntiger]

So how, exactly, should GF have been managed?

[os99]

Oh come on Burnie, while I no longer live in Leicester I do go to most home matches and most of the aways in the south.
When I attend them I am talking to a host of friends and other former players who are involved in and around the club.
I am not guessing from afar (as you seem to be).We know a class player when we see one.
There is so much clap-trap written about young George it's mind numbing.
That so many want to write him off because he was getting so little game time at Tigers is more to do with their angst at any criticism of RC.
The contention of my friends and I is that he has not been looked after and developed as he should have been.
You might also consider that it is really only by Harry Ellis's bad luck that Ben Youngs is still here.
Can you imagine keeping him on the bench for weeks frustrated to hell?
It's called player management.

That's nonsense, you have to pick your best team regardless of much long term potential a player has. Cole starts ahead of Castro because he is now a better player. Ford would start if he was good enough.

[tigerburnie]

George could still be a Tigers player, he and his agent/father seems have decided differently. Cockers said he was dissapointed that Ford was leaving, clearly we had plans for him.
There's a certain young fly half who was a Young Player of the year award winner in the news again today, he was given the reins at 17 and it seems to have blown up in his face, his full potential not realised. Maybe we were trying to manage this young man in a different manner. Wilko came to the fore, but he was maybe a different sort of person and could handle the pressure, not every player can.There's a certain young orange looking lad who also seemed to be not able to cope with the pressure that fame can bring. As I said we will never know because Ford is leaving, I like to think our record shows we can bring on young talent at just the right time. Some like Billy Twelvetrees and George Ford feel they need to move at a quicker pace, time will tell us if that is indeed the correct decision.
Wise old men putting the worlds wrongs to right has it's merits, but time can also dim the acuracy of those thoughts too.

[Smudge]

0s99 wrote

That's nonsense, you have to pick your best team regardless of much long term potential a player has. Cole starts ahead of Castro because he is now a better player. Ford would start if he was good enough.

You mean in your opinion.

If you took the trouble to read what I have said I didn't advocate Gearge starting all the time, in fact he could and should have been used more often at the 60 min point when the other team changes were made.
If it was OK to trust him to play whole games when Flood was away or injured, the same honour should have been extended to him when it came to player rotation.
The word I am getting from inside the club is that RC seriously undermined his confidence.

[tigerburnie]

I am not convinced that Ford going to Barf is a good move, if you look at how they have handled Heathcote, it looks no different to how Tigers handled him. I can't see him getting any more game time unless his Dad is going to pull strings to get him a game. I think if he could not compete in a Tigers environment, he probably won't be any better anywhere else either. Time will tell of course.

[Smudge]

I am similarly convinced Burnie. My gripe is not where he has gone to but why.
He father has been at Baarth for over a year so common sense must have indicated that if he wasn't progressing at Tigers there was a very strong chance he would join him.
Last season he had people purring with delight at his skill and vision,
especially down Bath way. Remember that game?
He was left behind from the summer tours in order to "bulk up" and we
all looked forward to his continued progress.Sharing the 10 spot.
It has not transpired this season but it would be the height of stupidity
to write him off as not good enough or not prepared to wait etc.
No one becomes a bad player overnight and class,(which he has in shed-loads) is permanent.
Clearly playing behind one of the England out-halves required some skill and management from the coaching staff to mentor him through that situation.
It is well known at the club that this did not happen.
RC knew the situation so how on earth is it that this great young prospect is leaving the best club in England to further his career?
It also sets a bad example for all the other rising stars.Yet another reason I desire a change of management.

[Tigerbeat]

My view is that he should have stayed and fought for the shirt. He would get gane time during the Autumn Internationals and the Six Nations. Ford is not the finished article and still has some development.
Saracens have got two experienced Fly halfs in Farrel and Hodgson and regularly change them.
Flood is still the more complete Fly Half at the moment and I am not saying that Ford will not get there - he has made the decision to leave and decided he did not want to challenge for the 10 shirt.

Changing props happens at all Clubs but changing players for the sake of it for development is not the way forward IMO.

[os99]

It's difficult giving game time to both Ford and Flood as they both only play 10. You can't rotate the half backs in the same way as you can with other positions and IMO it was the main reason for the back line struggling to function earlier in the season because of the lack of continuity. If Ford performed when he was given his chances, then I would understand his frustration with the lack of game time. But in my opinion he hasn't earnt it.

[TigerAlex]

I am similarly convinced Burnie. My gripe is not where he has gone to but why.
He father has been at Baarth for over a year so common sense must have indicated that if he wasn't progressing at Tigers there was a very strong chance he would join him.
Last season he had people purring with delight at his skill and vision,
especially down Bath way. Remember that game?

Yes, last season he looked promising. He also looked slightly one dimensional. His kicking from hand was excellent, but there wasn't actually all that much on show of his running and passing game. This season, he hasn't pushed on. His goal kicking has been very poor and this is an area which wins games.

He was left behind from the summer tours in order to "bulk up" and we
all looked forward to his continued progress.Sharing the 10 spot.
It has not transpired this season but it would be the height of stupidity
to write him off as not good enough or not prepared to wait etc.

Well he wasn't good enough this season. There are games we've lost which we could have won but for a couple of missed kicks that should have gone over. He also clearly was not prepared to wait. Nobody is saying that he's never going to become a very good player. Some say that it's not certain that he will become as good as the hype is making out. You think he will, fair enough. That's the nature of opinions. Time will tell if he makes good on the promise he's showed in youth rugby.

No one becomes a bad player overnight and class,(which he has in shed-loads) is permanent.
Clearly playing behind one of the England out-halves required some skill and management from the coaching staff to mentor him through that situation.
It is well known at the club that this did not happen.

Oh really? Pray tell who are your sources for this? I'm sure you will make up an excuse for not naming names, but I'm also sure you will understand everyone else when they don't believe you. You see, I could say that I have sources from within the club who say that Ford is an over-entitled kid who thinks he's better than he is.

RC knew the situation so how on earth is it that this great young prospect is leaving the best club in England to further his career?
It also sets a bad example for all the other rising stars.Yet another reason I desire a change of management.

Couldn't possibly be anything to do with his Dad? There are a plethora of possible reasons for him leaving the club and, believe it or not, they don't all end up being Cockerill's fault. Yes, he could have been badly managed, but I don't think so. I struggle to see where he could have played more. You say he should have been brought on at the 60 minute mark more, but more often than not, the game has been in the balance at that point. If he'd come on and missed a vital kick and we'd lost as a result, you'd also be screaming for the coaches' heads. You can't have it both ways. Either you're happy for us to lose a few games and maybe sacrifice our final position in the table to bring on someone who isn't the finished article, or you accept that in order to win, you have to play your best players regardless of potential. Toby Flood has won us an awful lot of games I'm not sure George Ford could have.

As for other rising stars: Ben Youngs, Tom Youngs, Manu Tuilagi, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling (not young, but was an unknown and nowhere near an international call up when he came here), Ed Slater, Steve Mafi. Probably Kitchener soon enough too, and even Adam Thompstone. They've all come on loads since arriving at Tigers. None of them were established internationals when they came here and the ones who still aren't are being touted for full international call-ups or are far closer to them than they were prior to coming to Tigers.

A final thought: when was the last time you saw a Tigers player in the newspapers for being drunk and disorderly or having been arrested? There's more to bringing on young players than nurturing their talent.

[Eon B]

I enjoy watching the youngsters coming up and want well for each of them. Time teaches that the promise of youth is most often broken or mislaid.

Both George and Sam, who taken together seemed to promise more even than the Goode and Grindell pairing, have not lived up to their promise yet, and on the occasions offered.

It seems to me they have slipped into the gap between academy and first team, and would have benefitted from Rugby every week against mature opposition, such as the Extras games provided.

As it is Sam has taken the second slot at 9 with apparent satisfaction while George has opted out and gone to Bath. Perhaps his promise will be redeemed there.

It is to me less of a betrayal than simply the children leaving home.

I'm sure he'll be back to visit.