Toulon v TIGERS!

[Northeast Tiger]

Personally I think we played well and we should applaud the squad. I am a Toby Fan and think he is the way forward for the club. Yes he missed seeing an overlap, but we see the game from a higher perspective than the players do, so it is easier for us to see what is happening. Plus from the stands whilst we are looking for space etc we are not expecting the man two rows in front to turn around and smash us in the rib cage. So please give the players a little slack.
I think our problem is the back row. Yesterday we started with a six, seven and eight. Perfect, we took the game to them and had parity. 6 goes off and we replace him with an eight. Toulon then get the upper hand and problems set in. If Mafi had been fit and on the bench this problem would not have occurred. We have to have proper cover in that area.
England played in the six Nations with 6 at eight in Wood and were also found out by a better team.
We need two fit sixes (Mafi and Croft) Two fit eights (Crane and Waldrom and two fit out and out sevens (Salvi and ???) With these options covered the srum-half gets better protection and the game will evolve. Simples

[tb1]

Personally I think we played well and we should applaud the squad. I am a Toby Fan and think he is the way forward for the club. Yes he missed seeing an overlap, but we see the game from a higher perspective than the players do, so it is easier for us to see what is happening. Plus from the stands whilst we are looking for space etc we are not expecting the man two rows in front to turn around and smash us in the rib cage. So please give the players a little slack.
I think our problem is the back row. Yesterday we started with a six, seven and eight. Perfect, we took the game to them and had parity. 6 goes off and we replace him with an eight. Toulon then get the upper hand and problems set in. If Mafi had been fit and on the bench this problem would not have occurred. We have to have proper cover in that area.
England played in the six Nations with 6 at eight in Wood and were also found out by a better team.
We need two fit sixes (Mafi and Croft) Two fit eights (Crane and Waldrom and two fit out and out sevens (Salvi and ???) With these options covered the srum-half gets better protection and the game will evolve. Simples

I agree but if Mafi had been on the bench Waldrom would not have been, and then what if Jordan had been the one to be injured?

Just one of those things.

[mol2]

I guess the difference was in the salary cap.

We had parity in most areas but there's no room (in the budget) for a Mat Giteau or a rumbling No8. In fact we'll struggle to hold the players we've got.

We just can't expect to beat the top French & Irish sides because the playing field isn't level. Don't blame the opposition for that. Where will Toulon be when their Sugar Daddy moves on? Where are Richmond now? Where are Newcastle?

[Northeast Tiger]

Personally I think we played well and we should applaud the squad. I am a Toby Fan and think he is the way forward for the club. Yes he missed seeing an overlap, but we see the game from a higher perspective than the players do, so it is easier for us to see what is happening. Plus from the stands whilst we are looking for space etc we are not expecting the man two rows in front to turn around and smash us in the rib cage. So please give the players a little slack.
I think our problem is the back row. Yesterday we started with a six, seven and eight. Perfect, we took the game to them and had parity. 6 goes off and we replace him with an eight. Toulon then get the upper hand and problems set in. If Mafi had been fit and on the bench this problem would not have occurred. We have to have proper cover in that area.
England played in the six Nations with 6 at eight in Wood and were also found out by a better team.
We need two fit sixes (Mafi and Croft) Two fit eights (Crane and Waldrom and two fit out and out sevens (Salvi and ???) With these options covered the srum-half gets better protection and the game will evolve. Simples

I agree but if Mafi had been on the bench Waldrom would not have been, and then what if Jordan had been the one to be injured?

Just one of those things.

Maybe tb1 it could have happened as Crane Mafi and Croft have played as second row cover also. Just a thought.

[os99]

I guess the difference was in the salary cap.

We had parity in most areas but there's no room (in the budget) for a Mat Giteau or a rumbling No8. In fact we'll struggle to hold the players we've got.

We just can't expect to beat the top French & Irish sides because the playing field isn't level. Don't blame the opposition for that. Where will Toulon be when their Sugar Daddy moves on? Where are Richmond now? Where are Newcastle?

The salary cap certainly makes it more difficult, but not impossible. I think that home advantage is more crucial, had the game been at Welford road we probably would have took advantage of the dominance in the first 20 minutes and would of won comfortably.

[STEO]

Just a little message to tell you that you can be proud of your team.

Just a few team have managed to make us doubt in stade Mayol.

The point is that you didn't score in first half and we were stonger in second...and we've got Wilko in our team !!!

Just to answer about money and MB.
He put his own money the first two or three years he took the club.
Now the club is financiary independant and the budget is built on sponsors, subscriptions (about 10000 and quite expensive !) and help form municipality.

I hope my english isn't too bad and that you manage to understand me ! ;)

See you next year :)

[jamiewilkinson]

What a great weekend! a great reception by the french who were as welcoming as they are passionate.
The yellow cards I felt werent a factor in us losing. Our defense stepped up to the challenge and perfomed to ensure we were not severely punished.
When Flood missed the penalty that was when the game started to turn.
The salary cap thing comes up when talking about competing in Europe but that game was there for us to win. They may be a team that has the worlds best being payed unbelievable amounts but we matched them with our tiny cap in comparison. Strange take on respect the Kicker...I thought every kick gets lots of noise, not the case, Flood yes, Wilko no. It made it sweeter when Flood converted them.
The stadium was atmospheric and intense. The boys should not fear going away to any ground after this experience. Incredible.
I thought Allen could have been our match winner and Crane stepped up with some clever footwork. Tait and Thompstone was outstanding. Our pack excelled against their big strong pack. Croft fantastic and could have also won us the game if it hadnt been for the injury.
I was really hoping Manu would relish the opportunity of playing against Basteraud and use his footwork to skip around, shame.
All the boys played well, but give away penalties in your own half and Wilko will punish you. His up and unders give his chasers enough time to compete for the ball which gives him the edge. I really think he should be on the plane to Australia the day after the Top14 Final. He is certainly worshiped out there and they love him more than we did when he played in England. Its unfair to the rest of the team to say as they got them into the position but it really was the Wilko Show, Wilko v Tigers.
Proud of the boys, and now time to kick on to get the Prem Trophy back!

PS alot of Toulon fans we met had great respect for Tigers and were nervous before the game. Thank you Toulon

[Norfolk & Goode]

Not sure the salary cap beat us at all, I rate all of our starting fifteen on a par with Toulon. Yellow cards lost us the momentum, Crofty going off took out some of the genius in our attack, that's all a great side like Toulon needed, any other side we would of won.

Coleys yellow card was harsh, he tried gathering the ball as Manu did last week but Clancy obviously didn't think so. Floodys was deserved.

[Norfolk & Goode]

Is it me or did Castro look like he's lost weight? and did he or did he not out scrummage Jenkins? I think so!

[Tigersunited]

I have just returned from Toulon.
What a trip and what a game. Some really interesting posts on here. Sport both unites and divides, the best aspect is that everyones view is valid and this gives sport its 'rich tapestry'
i felt the lads did everything they could do,I could taste their intensity and desire to win but they came up against a more talented and experienced opposition.
The posts that interest the most are those about the players mental attitude and that being the reason for defeat. I felt we were edged out in a really close game and the difference was not a superior mental attitude but superior talent.
For example, Toby & Johnny, which is most talented? lets suppose it is the latter. To be a world cup winner, etc, i would have believed one of the key elements of Johnny the player is his mental attitude. Therefore if Toby matches the mental attitide of Johnny he is still unlikely to match his talent. If this goes for the majority of the squad, which is more talented player for player and everyone has an equal(ish) mental attitude the better team will generally come out on top.

If however we have the more talented squad and its the mental attitude that lets us down, what would be the advice on how to bridge the mental gap?

[STEO]

What a great weekend! a great reception by the french who were as welcoming as they are passionate.
The yellow cards I felt werent a factor in us losing. Our defense stepped up to the challenge and perfomed to ensure we were not severely punished.
When Flood missed the penalty that was when the game started to turn.
The salary cap thing comes up when talking about competing in Europe but that game was there for us to win. They may be a team that has the worlds best being payed unbelievable amounts but we matched them with our tiny cap in comparison. Strange take on respect the Kicker...I thought every kick gets lots of noise, not the case, Flood yes, Wilko no. It made it sweeter when Flood converted them.
The stadium was atmospheric and intense. The boys should not fear going away to any ground after this experience. Incredible.
I thought Allen could have been our match winner and Crane stepped up with some clever footwork. Tait and Thompstone was outstanding. Our pack excelled against their big strong pack. Croft fantastic and could have also won us the game if it hadnt been for the injury.
I was really hoping Manu would relish the opportunity of playing against Basteraud and use his footwork to skip around, shame.
All the boys played well, but give away penalties in your own half and Wilko will punish you. His up and unders give his chasers enough time to compete for the ball which gives him the edge. I really think he should be on the plane to Australia the day after the Top14 Final. He is certainly worshiped out there and they love him more than we did when he played in England. Its unfair to the rest of the team to say as they got them into the position but it really was the Wilko Show, Wilko v Tigers.
Proud of the boys, and now time to kick on to get the Prem Trophy back!

PS alot of Toulon fans we met had great respect for Tigers and were nervous before the game. Thank you Toulon

Thank you :)

It was a really pleasure to meet some of Tigers supporters.

Good luck for Premiership.

[Jay C]

We need two fit sixes (Mafi and Croft) Two fit eights (Crane and Waldrom and two fit out and out sevens (Salvi and ???) With these options covered the srum-half gets better protection and the game will evolve. Simples

I agree but if Mafi had been on the bench Waldrom would not have been, and then what if Jordan had been the one to be injured?

Just one of those things.

Maybe tb1 it could have happened as Crane Mafi and Croft have played as second row cover also. Just a thought.

And here's another thought - Kitchener & Slater have both played 6, but the (right) call was made to bring on TtTE...

[youngtiger]

I have just returned from Toulon...
the best aspect is that everyone's view is valid ...
they came up against a more talented and experienced opposition...
For example, Toby & Johnny, which is most talented? Let's suppose it is the latter. To be a world cup winner, etc, i would have believed one of the key elements of Johnny the player is his mental attitude. Therefore if Toby matches the mental attitude of Johnny he is still unlikely to match his talent... If this goes for the majority of the squad, which is more talented player for player and everyone has an equal(ish) mental attitude the better team will generally come out on top.

If however we have the more talented squad and its the mental attitude that lets us down, what would be the advice on how to bridge the mental gap?

Lucky you! It seems a rather unforgettable experience has been had by all who went!

"People who want to say that everyone’s opinion is equally valid are betraying their own fear and weakness, and especially their own ignorance."- If people's views; which must be based in reality as opposed to illusion, are logically-reasoned given their context then yes, they are all equally and wonderfully valid. Otherwise, not so much.

I personally would disagree with your supposition; they are so diametrically-opposed in terms of style of play.

For your example of mental attitude you happen to have chosen probably the outstanding example in mental attitude in world rugby and arguably also world sport (of course, there are uncountable alternatives). As a consequence I would contend that Jonny has an edge over Toby in this regard and vice versa in others.

Unfortunately it simply isn't as simple as "(((the difference the between skill + the difference in mental attitude) + the difference in experience) + X amount crowd factor) = difference between teams, and by proxy scores. The variables are unfathomably great and varied, the aforementioned factors are totally incalculable, and the relevant and possibly decisive (though, as stated, still entirely incalculable) events are so unconscionably minor and quick that it is effectively redundant to point towards individual factors and events, as it's effectively impossible to know the difference between one factor's effect and another's.

However the one thing I will mention, Tigersunited, which you have mentioned at the start of your comment and then hitherto ignored, (or possibly re-phrased with mental attitude?) is experience. The one thing that every player must ensure is that this experience, and the very memory of it, drives and teaches him come the next time. This, I would hypothesise, would be the answer to your concluding question on any possibly existing "mental gap".

[The Boy Dave]

Experience, an important factor in an idividual's and also a team's mentality but also a word that is often referred to as being lacking in order to get over a bad time and look more positively to the future, it's all about opinion's though. One thing I would state as fact and ask others is how experienced was Wilkinson when he knocked that world cup winning drop goal over against Australia in their own backyard. It was ten years ago now and Wilkinson was just 24 years old. It was the biggest rugby match in the history of English rugby against a team playing at home. He was not particularly experienced when it came to big club matches and so did not have this experience to ready him for the big stage and so I would argue that pure talent was the key factor in Wilkinson's career and his contribution as a fly half in helping England win the world cup. The old saying "if he is good enough, he is old enough" comes to mind.

[tigerburnie]

That world cup team was full of world class players, a lot plying their trade for the Tigers. We do not have a group of world class players in the team just yet, should any get picked for the Lions, then maybe we will see the emergence of a neucleus of players that can take us to the heights Johnno and co achieved.