Castro confirms Tigers departure

[Purebob]

Moody was broken and retired after 15 games for Bath
Vesty was our third choice and left for game time
Hipkiss was our second choice and left for game time
Agulla was let go because of his unavailability vs his cost.

Of your list Castro is the first who is leaving "because of Cockers", but in truth most onlookers would agree that Castro isn't nearly the player he has, nor nearly as good as Cole now.

Please recognise that others can look at your logic and intelligently disagree with it without it being provocative or abusive.

[tigerburnie]

As Matt O'Connor is leaving and we are told the club is looking for a/some repacement/s, then the club will be evolving. Simon Cohen has already said he sees Richard Cockerill as a "Fergie" type of DOR and he is likely to be here for years. If the players did not like the Leicester environment,would they not leave , rather than extend contracts.Seems to me that the majority of players have shown publically what they think of our club set up. Some on the fringes, or even on the way out might have some complaints, but it would seem they are a small minority and that happens in all walks of life.
Sadly there's always some backstabbing going on in all walks of life, seems to be the way these days.

Tigerburnie you are all over this forum like a rash. Determined to have the last word patronising and dismissing the comments of others with comments like the above.

The last quote is clearly aimed at those "alleged" players who are supposedly criticising the club and or Cockers, it was part of a discussion about players that is on going. Now if you feel that the comments are appropriate to yourself and maybe others on here, then that is you that is saying that, not me.
Purebob replied very eloquently to the rest of the rant and I would like to thank him to rising to my defence. I do however have skin like a rhino according to my wife and do provocative and, if the moderators were to allow it, abusive too.
Let's put some facts up to support your side of the debate, as I try to do. I have family with connections to those close to the club, but I do not try to claim to "secret" source to back up rumour, I say what is in the public domain, I use links to comments made by players who are clearly happy with their lot at the Tigers. Clearly in any competitive environment there will be those who do not get all they think they deserve and they might express their personal dissatisfaction in public, that does not mean that a minority position is part of a problem and that things are, to quote you "very,very " wrong

[beccap2007]

Castro says he Isn't happy with the amount of game time he gets at Leicester. He was quite happy to go and play for Italy and let other players play In his position but when these players become good and share game time he doesn't like It. You dont see Cole complaining. What happened to being part of the team. Just think It Is Just greed. Hope for his sake he gets a team to play for.

[Crumblies]

Moody was broken and retired after 15 games for Bath
Vesty was our third choice and left for game time
Hipkiss was our second choice and left for game time
Agulla was let go because of his unavailability vs his cost.

Of your list Castro is the first who is leaving "because of Cockers", but in truth most onlookers would agree that Castro isn't nearly the player he has, nor nearly as good as Cole now.

Please recognise that others can look at your logic and intelligently disagree with it without it being provocative or abusive.

Corrections:
1. Dan Hipkiss when he left had become 3rd or fourth choice behind Matt Smith.
2. I haven't claimed that Castro is better than Cole now. However to pick up on your point when Castro was clearly better than Cole you could set your watch by the time that RC would replace Castro with Cole you cannot say the same since the position has been reversed.

However you missed the point I made, which was, it is not necessarily the departure of these players that concerns me it is the acrimony that appears to accompany it.

[Bill W (2)]

However you missed the point I made, which was, it is not necessarily the departure of these players that concerns me it is the acrimony that appears to accompany it.

I can confirm from personal conversations with Dan, Horacio and Sams' Mum that in those three cases there was significant acrimony.

[Crumblies]

The last quote is clearly aimed at those "alleged" players who are supposedly criticising the club and or Cockers, it was part of a discussion about players that is on going. Now if you feel that the comments are appropriate to yourself and maybe others on here, then that is you that is saying that, not me.
Purebob replied very eloquently to the rest of the rant ...

Oh I see. So when you comment, it is part of a discussion about a few minority players and what you interpret as hearsay and of no consequence.

But when someone else comments to the contrary its a rant!

But you are not being patronising or dismissive.

There's a saying if flies like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's problably a duck.

[kornboy130]

However you missed the point I made, which was, it is not necessarily the departure of these players that concerns me it is the acrimony that appears to accompany it.

I can confirm from personal conversations with Dan, Horacio and Sams' Mum that in those three cases there was significant acrimony.

At the time it will always hurt - All of those players wanted to stay, none of them were made offers - that is life.

I can't speak for them but considering Agulla was pretty key in advising Camacho to join us, and publicly congratulated him when the news broke describing Leicester as a "great club" - it would be easy to suggest those wounds had healed. In Dan's case I doubt very much he'd be working for Leicesters summer camps if his wounds hadn't healed.

Being told you're not wanted is never going to instill a great amount of good feeling - it's whether that ill feeling lasts which seems to be the real teller.

[Purebob]

I can confirm from personal conversations with Dan, Horacio and Sams' Mum that in those three cases there was significant acrimony.

And I could confirm the exact reverse from my personal conversations with those people and others.

My claim is exactly as useful in argument as yours Bill, with respect. People who aren't offered renewals are sometimes unhappy about it.

[Bill W (2)]

I can confirm from personal conversations with Dan, Horacio and Sams' Mum that in those three cases there was significant acrimony.

And I could confirm the exact reverse from my personal conversations with those people and others.

My claim is exactly as useful in argument as yours Bill, with respect. People who aren't offered renewals are sometimes unhappy about it.

Fascinating. You say there was no acrimony and then confirm that there was (or might have been)!!

I go along with kornboys comments. Time is a great healer. I would also mention that in all three cases the bad feeling was not towards "the club" but to individuals within it.

[Rizzo]

The last quote is clearly aimed at those "alleged" players who are supposedly criticising the club and or Cockers, it was part of a discussion about players that is on going. Now if you feel that the comments are appropriate to yourself and maybe others on here, then that is you that is saying that, not me.
Purebob replied very eloquently to the rest of the rant ...

Oh I see. So when you comment, it is part of a discussion about a few minority players and what you interpret as hearsay and of no consequence.

But when someone else comments to the contrary its a rant!

But you are not being patronising or dismissive.

There's a saying if flies like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's problably a duck.

The above post has been edited, please don't resort to playground namecalling. And as for the comment about someone posting on all threads and being all over the forum, isn't that what a forum discussion board is for? Many users go through and post on all threads, and please continue to do so or we wouldn't have any discussions

[tigerburnie]

Oh I see. So when you comment, it is part of a discussion about a few minority players and what you interpret as hearsay and of no consequence.

But when someone else comments to the contrary its a rant!

But you are not being patronising or dismissive.

There's a saying if flies like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's problably a duck.

Crumblie, if something is unsubstantiated it is clearly hearsay by definition. But again you make a feeble attempt to twist the facts, I did not say the comments were of no consequence, that is your interpretation.
You selectively ignore the positive attempts to return to debate and support your position, instead you resort to words that were contrary to the sites rules and were edited by the moderator. Sounds like the definition of a rant to me.
But I am willing to enter a debate on the subject without upsetting other forum users or the moderators, are you willing to do that and agree to disagree on certain matters?

[os99]

All decisions made my Cockers have proved to be the best for the club and with a salary cap you can't afford to be giving contracts to players who don't deserve it or won't make the contributions to justify it. No player is bigger than the club and it's that ethos that helps make tigers so consistent every year.

[jgriffin]

'Seems to me that the majority of players have shown publically what they think of our club set up. Some on the fringes, or even on the way out might have some complaints, but it would seem they are a small minority and that happens in all walks of life.'

If TB or others had read my post they would realise that I (and Crumblies) were pointing out that we cannot know what exactly was going on. Anyone saying how wonderful Cockers is or how awful he is, is just talking out of their botty hole. We can judge by results maybe, although those are coaching team efforts as well as player performance. We cannot be privy to private conversations, and public utterances are no more credible than any other PR spheroids. Some may have been told things by players and ex-players, as I have on one occasion; however the truth is not verifiable unless we have the player accounts and support for that version from other sources.

This thread, probably more than any other, has shown me what a fickle and thoughtless bunch most posters are. Castro has been a great servant to this club and the club and coaches are where they are in a small part due to Castro's work. Very few pro sports careers end well; I personally have loved seeing Castro play and am grateful, and otherwise couldn't give a toss for speculation.

[Crumblies]

tigerburnie wrote: Crumblie, if something is unsubstantiated it is clearly hearsay by definition. But again you make a feeble attempt to twist the facts, I did not say the comments were of no consequence, that is your interpretation.

Err excuse me here we go again. Only one person is trying to twist the facts here and thats you, and this was precisely the point in my original post. Read what I said an read it carefully I was referring to your original reply which I quote:

tigerburnie wrote?
...Seems to me that the majority of players have shown publically what they think of our club set up. Some on the fringes, or even on the way out might have some complaints, but it would seem they are a small minority and that happens in all walks of life.

Now my English may not be the best but that quote seems very much to me like some one trying to dismiss the departure of some of our players previously held in high esteem as of little consequence.

And as for my comments being unsubstantiated clearly you have not read Lewis Moodys autobiography, the recent public comments of Castro or the sagas involving 12Ts and George Ford. Not to mention the issues regarding accademy players who are being denied the opportunity to progress as enunciated time after time by 4071 and hw27.

[Bill W (2)]

Getting rid of 14 our of 50 odd players would appear to me to be high by GE or even PT standards!

Was previous recruitement misguided?