Is it me........?

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boon
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by boon » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:57 am

mea culpa

in the cold light of day i put my hands up and accept i made a comment too far - have edited that out.

we cant unsee things though so apologies to anyone who was offended, but most specifically of course, apologies to smurphswillgetya.
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by Rizzo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:22 pm

In the heat of the moment it's sometimes not hard to post something that's several steps too far, thank you boon for removing and apologising.

I would always advise users to sit back, re-read and think for a few moments before hitting the submit button, considering how your remarks could be perceived by others before posting is always a good idea.
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Ads677
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by Ads677 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:33 am

Smurphswillgetya wrote:
Mat wrote: I am not a Farrell basher I think he wanted more than any other England player other than robshaw and tried all the time was aggressive in defence. He needs a clever 12 playmaker alongside him. Billy should be given a run of starts to see if he can be that person.
Sorry but the 10 should be the playmaker, so it begs the question that if he needs a clever playmaker at 12 what good is he for the team at 10.
By not having a constructive player outside him, Farrell is very much easier to attack or defend against. It is perhaps interesting to remember that with Twelvetrees at 12 England created tries in their first game.

I also wonder whether the loss of Ben Morgan and the consequent playing of non-number 8s hampered our pack.

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Re: Is it me........?

Post by Smurphswillgetya » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am

boon wrote:mea culpa

in the cold light of day i put my hands up and accept i made a comment too far - have edited that out.

we cant unsee things though so apologies to anyone who was offended, but most specifically of course, apologies to smurphswillgetya.
hey Boon no need for an apology. I enjoy a bit of banter and naturally will stick to my viewpoint and often wind other posters up. Carry on posting you know you are always welcome here (even though you are a Saints fan :smt003 )

Tom Youngs did get on the wrong side of the ref and it was right to take him off but overall he has had a good 6N for a newcomer. It is wrong to single out any player from what was a dire England performance. Just to show I dont hate Saints compeltely I am glad Tom Woods has got over his injury problems and has played well for England even though out of position. We wont see it but a backrow of Croft, Wood and Morgan would be devastating on dry firm pitches.
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.

youngtiger
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by youngtiger » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:44 am

boon wrote: 1.But we will simply have to agree to disagree on whether youngs or hartley has more to offer england

2.how tom youngs played today - weak in the scrum, mixed at the lineout, poor discipline meaning too many silly silly penalties.
1. I refuse to agree to disagree, here's my case for Youngs: Hits the breakdowns with more aggression and accuracy, much better ball carrier, lineout improving and in all honesty as consistent as Hartley's nowadays and improving in scrum.

2. Yes but so was everyone else, and his props couldn't protect him, actually g good at lineout-11/1 win/loss, I feel that was mostly Walsh's pompous nature mixed with his lack of a clue as to what was going on. Unless that is I missed him committing all sorts of fouls at ruck time? I admit I found some of it quite hard to watch too closely.

boon
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by boon » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:18 pm

smurphs - fair play to you. i enjoy banter and a lively debate too, thats why i visit opposition forums, but i reckon i did make a comment too far. nothing personal, and i look forward to our next tussle. :smt023

youngtiger - refusing to agree to disagree? its novel, i'll give you that. :smt016
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mike
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by mike » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:10 pm

I think the loss of Morgan made a big difference - he is probably the one English forward who is strong enough and quick enough to really break the gain line on a consistent basis .I think it was a shame that 12trees and Barritt were not allowed to develop their pairing after the Scotland game - Manu would have been fine filling Ashton's role .

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Re: Is it me........?

Post by TigerCam » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:55 pm

Grannyman wrote:I'm not a huge Farrell fan at all but I thought he did well today. The problem is that Ashton keeps getting picked when Wade should replace him. Brown should be full back and the Barrett/Tuilagi combo doesn't seem to have a plan B. You can't just run at Roberts and expect to score or even break the line. England seem to refuse to use the wings, even though the centres achieve nothing. Two crash centres won't cut it at this level, you need sharp runners.

On a seperate note, the England scrum was second rate in a game where the forwards should have been the main tactic to win!

Proud day to be a Welshman!
Farrell blew Saturday along with the other 14 because as we have seen from other threads that Walsh had sown so many seeds of doubt for England at the scrum/breakdown that any ball was going to be bad ball. This combined with the poor handling skills under pressure led to the implosion of the Eng XV. SL has rightly questioned the ability of Walsh to ref an unbiased game. He (Walsh) failed this years ago and was reprimanded for it. Wales played a much better game and nothing, not even the one-eyed amongst us should detract from that. IMO even if the reffing was spot on, Eng would still have lost given the selection but maybe not by 27 points. For me it was a good lesson learnt for England. I'm sure it hold them in good stead when they play the Argies next summer where they will have the political pressure as well as the atmosphere of another cauldron to play in.
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voice of the crumbie
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by voice of the crumbie » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57 am

Re Farrell. Great comment by Ian Cockerill on last night's Leicester Tigers' Rugby Show. Referring to the fact that he starts at 10 for England but isn't guaranteed a start there at club level he commented "they're still trying to work out what his best position is. It's probably at 13 for Wigan."

:smt005 :smt005 :smt005

Made me laugh anyway!
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by tig1 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:42 am

TigerCam wrote:
Grannyman wrote:
Farrell blew Saturday along with the other 14 because as we have seen from other threads that Walsh had sown so many seeds of doubt for England at the scrum/breakdown that any ball was going to be bad ball. This combined with the poor handling skills under pressure led to the implosion of the Eng XV. SL has rightly questioned the ability of Walsh to ref an unbiased game. He (Walsh) failed this years ago and was reprimanded for it. Wales played a much better game and nothing, not even the one-eyed amongst us should detract from that. IMO even if the reffing was spot on, Eng would still have lost given the selection but maybe not by 27 points. For me it was a good lesson learnt for England. I'm sure it hold them in good stead when they play the Argies next summer where they will have the political pressure as well as the atmosphere of another cauldron to play in.
If a team in top class rugby overwhelmingly wins the scrum, then they win the game, usual very comfortably. You would be hard pressed to find an example where that didnt happen. As Tigers fans we understand fully the impact of winning the scrum.

On Saturday, after 50 minutes the score was still 12 - 3, with England having butchered the two best chances of the match and missed a couple of kickable penalties, but Cole and Youngs had totally fallen foul of Walsh, and the impact on the team is massive, not to mention the physical and points impact.

Was the scrum handled correctly by Walsh ? IMO no, but everybody has there own opinions. But what is not in doubt IMO is the Welsh overwhelming dominance at the scrum was decisive in the match.

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Re: Is it me........?

Post by Hull Fan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:58 am

voice of the crumbie wrote:Re Farrell. Great comment by Ian Cockerill on last night's Leicester Tigers' Rugby Show. Referring to the fact that he starts at 10 for England but isn't guaranteed a start there at club level he commented "they're still trying to work out what his best position is. It's probably at 13 for Wigan."

:smt005 :smt005 :smt005

Made me laugh anyway!
He'd get murdered at loose forward! :smt001
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by shedster » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:46 pm

Well finally calmed down ( live far too close to Wales ) my biggest bug bear is the plastic fans that wear red on a 6 nations day and white when the roundy ball boys run around . Rant over now to the subject at hand why oh why do we insist on playing players out of position ! The lack of a big ball carrier at eight , playing a fullback on the wing and finally two centres who do exactly the same job . It's a recipe for disaster as has been proved , the irony is that C Sharples was dropped last year for a perceived lack of tackling ability yet C Ashton can do no wrong :smt011 . Time Mr S Lancaster to choose players to play in there positions and to show a ruthless streak when it comes to Ashton and maybe Marler ! I know I am urinating into the wind but just had to put my thoughts forward .

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Re: Is it me........?

Post by tigerburnie » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 pm

I tend to agree shedster, oh and elegantly put for someone who lives so close to Offas Dyke. :smt004
There's a bit of a party atmosphere around Bath this afternoon - but you wouldn't get that at Leicester if we finished ninth." Richard Cockerill 7/5/16

mol2
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Re: Is it me........?

Post by mol2 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:38 pm

Shedster - you are not alone in saying this.

Loyalty of a coach to his players is a good thing but it can't go as far as playing players out of position. That's something you do to cover injuries and you haven't got a specialist on the bench. Otherwise you could have 8 props and 7 wingers.

Very few players can play more than one position well and even fewer can do so at international level. For me none of this England side are good enough to play anywhere but their specialist position, except perhaps for Flood and Farrell who are capable as fly half and centre although Flood would be rusty as he's not done it for some time.

Austin Healey was an exception in that he was a world class scrum half yet able to play wing similarly well. At club level he could play anywhere in the backs except fly half (although he thought he could do that too)

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Re: Is it me........?

Post by shedster » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:28 pm

Tigerburnie I am also good at counting due to my six fingers :smt002 . Mol2 you maybe right Re : Mr Healey , but on average I think it leaves a player in a catch 22 where the management see them as a bench option as " they are able to cover a number of position " would be interested to know how many of Austins caps came from a bench ! I know Jonny Mays been advised to concentrate on the wing position by the England management .

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