Rugby seems to operate a ban system that is based on time, which for some circumstances - like drug bans for 2 years is sensible and in lime with other sports.
We had the farcical situation where Calum Clarke was banned for 6 months yet, because it was near the end of the season, all he missed was a few games at the end of the season & a few at the start of this. we may debate the length of his ban but had he been banned in September he'd have missed 6 months of the season - a much more significant ban for him and the club.
However bans for lesser things like a bit of a punch up for a week or 4 or whatever are of variable significance - a 3 week ban incurred in the last game of the season counts for nothing, a 2 week ban may mean 2 6n or European matches missed or just 1 round of the LV cup.
Surely a ban for foul play in Europe should be for say 2 European matches.
A ban incurred playing for England should mean 2 missed international matches not 2 Tigers games.
Any views?
Bans
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longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Bans
I've always thought it was weird - especially in the case of Clark where his ban ran through the summer, when he may (or may not) have missed a handful of tour matches only for his country.
My personal opinion is that if a ban is incurred for foul play in a European game then the suspension should be for a number of European matches, same for international and domestic. Weeks just doesn't work, IMHO of course (although I appreciate that we've also had benefit from this system in years gone by
My personal opinion is that if a ban is incurred for foul play in a European game then the suspension should be for a number of European matches, same for international and domestic. Weeks just doesn't work, IMHO of course (although I appreciate that we've also had benefit from this system in years gone by
Re: Bans
Remember Pat Howard recommending this one when Lewis Moody and Alex Tuilagi both got banned after the England v Samoa match when they came to blows.mol2 wrote:..... A ban incurred playing for England should mean 2 missed international matches not 2 Tigers games ...
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
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WhitecapTiger
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Re: Bans
I fully agree that a ban for an offence in one competition should be result in matches missed in that competition.
And I think that any player from any team should serve a ban in matches, not in weeks - specifically to avoid a similar scenarios to previously seen/encountered.
And I think that any player from any team should serve a ban in matches, not in weeks - specifically to avoid a similar scenarios to previously seen/encountered.
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.
Re: Bans
I do not have the answer.
However, it does not seem right to me that someone who is sent off for a deliberate act of violence in a club game is then possibly free to represent their country the following week.
Similarly, if you are sent off playing for your country, the greatest honour you can achieve, should you be allowed to play in a prestigious cup final next week?
However, it does not seem right to me that someone who is sent off for a deliberate act of violence in a club game is then possibly free to represent their country the following week.
Similarly, if you are sent off playing for your country, the greatest honour you can achieve, should you be allowed to play in a prestigious cup final next week?
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Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: Bans
There should also be a clause around being suspended for time/number of games or until any injured party returns to playing
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Dave Angel
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Re: Bans
Banning someone for a particular tournament wouldn't be workable in reality I don't think.
For a start, why did you group all International matches together yet separately identify Premiership/LV/Euro tournaments?
Should a ban in a 6N match only ban the player from future 6N games?
What would happen if the player was sent off in a friendly? When should that ban run from/to? What about bans in one-off games? Or competitions which were not going to exist in future seasons?
Quite rightly, it was the PLAYER who committed the offence, so the PLAYER should be banned. It doesn't matter if that player was sent off while with Tigers. England, Barbarians, Major Stanley's XV etc. The ban is for the player and should take effect immediately.
If someone is sent off for gouging in a HC game, is it right that they be allowed to play for their club the following week in the Premiership for example? What kind of example would that set and what kind of period of remorse or reflection would there have been for the player to learn the error of his ways?
What happens for bans that result from the totting up of yellow cards? Should the totting up be done by competition also?
What happens to a player banned whilst playing for Toulon in the Top14 who then transfers to Tigers? Should he NEVER serve his ban as he is no longer in the competion he was banned whilst playing in?z Does that give someone carte blanche to do what they like in their final game before leaving for a new club to do whatever they like free from subsequent punishment?
While I do agree that bans should change from a set number of weeks to a set number of games, I don't think those bans should be competition-specific as that wouldn't be workable in practice.
For a start, why did you group all International matches together yet separately identify Premiership/LV/Euro tournaments?
Should a ban in a 6N match only ban the player from future 6N games?
What would happen if the player was sent off in a friendly? When should that ban run from/to? What about bans in one-off games? Or competitions which were not going to exist in future seasons?
Quite rightly, it was the PLAYER who committed the offence, so the PLAYER should be banned. It doesn't matter if that player was sent off while with Tigers. England, Barbarians, Major Stanley's XV etc. The ban is for the player and should take effect immediately.
If someone is sent off for gouging in a HC game, is it right that they be allowed to play for their club the following week in the Premiership for example? What kind of example would that set and what kind of period of remorse or reflection would there have been for the player to learn the error of his ways?
What happens for bans that result from the totting up of yellow cards? Should the totting up be done by competition also?
What happens to a player banned whilst playing for Toulon in the Top14 who then transfers to Tigers? Should he NEVER serve his ban as he is no longer in the competion he was banned whilst playing in?z Does that give someone carte blanche to do what they like in their final game before leaving for a new club to do whatever they like free from subsequent punishment?
While I do agree that bans should change from a set number of weeks to a set number of games, I don't think those bans should be competition-specific as that wouldn't be workable in practice.
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soggytiger
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Re: Bans
Dave,
Bans by competition would work as it does in Football.
Group competitions into International, European and Domestic ( in rugby include AP and LV).
Cumulative bans apply to that competition but reduce the threshold/ use a a citing committee sanction to trigger.
If a player transfers between clubs whilst banned then he take the suspension with him for that competition as football does. So X signs from a HC team with a two match ban for a team in the Amlin. One year later that team plays in HC and he is banned for two games. If team signing the players with a ban know they will lose them for a number of games then what is the issue? It may affect contract negotiations but that is down to the club/player.
My final thought is that post Tincu - the above system already exists but we remain in a hybrid shameteurism on disciplinary issues that could well be removed/resolved in a better way.
Bans by competition would work as it does in Football.
Group competitions into International, European and Domestic ( in rugby include AP and LV).
Cumulative bans apply to that competition but reduce the threshold/ use a a citing committee sanction to trigger.
If a player transfers between clubs whilst banned then he take the suspension with him for that competition as football does. So X signs from a HC team with a two match ban for a team in the Amlin. One year later that team plays in HC and he is banned for two games. If team signing the players with a ban know they will lose them for a number of games then what is the issue? It may affect contract negotiations but that is down to the club/player.
My final thought is that post Tincu - the above system already exists but we remain in a hybrid shameteurism on disciplinary issues that could well be removed/resolved in a better way.