Ford to Bath and other reports

[G.K]

I agree with Eagle 50.

Flood is a very good 10 and obviously intent on playing for England regularly. That is how it should be.

Ford is already almost his equal (not quite) and is also intent on playing for England regularly. He is only a year or so younger than Farrel who is currently the 10 in post so he can't afford to hang around.

Both Flood and Ford need to play regularly for their club to gain England recognition, which means one has to leave for pastures new.

I agree with Eagle 50 because I too believe Ford will soon surpass both Flood and Farrel if he regularly gets the game time he needs. Sharing with Flood is insufficient for both at this time.

I look forward to seeing my prediction of some months ago being proved correct maybe next year: Ford, Twelvetrees and Manu playing together for England. Add in Ben Youngs and hopefully Varndell and it would be even better.

Even if Ford eventually becomes a better FH than Flood, and I'm not convinced that he will, that would not make it right to drop Flood for Ford at the current time. As others have noted and paraphrasing Sparks (?) .. This club ain't big enough for the both of them....

[mol2]

The club coach has to pick the player that is best for the team now.

It's not like picking for England where a player will be yours for the next 10 years and the important tournament is only once every 4 years.

The League has to be won every year, the European cup has to be won every year - the team may evolve but a premiership team does not have the luxury of picking a development squad. The salary cap means that there's no huge gulf between the best and worst sides and a top 4 finish is guaranteed to no side, particularly as the likes of Tigers have to make up for the games that can't win during the international windows.

Sometimes young players just have to leave to get the experience that can't get because the established player is better - perhaps with experience the pecking order will change. Some will leave because they believe they are already better but being held back

[Eagle 50]

To me it was highly likely after last season that the coaches would be forced to choose between Ford and Flood. I just couldn't imagine either putting up with benching most games, sharing the role and being the second choice 10. I can see that RC has tried to keep both, prioritising Flood as his preferred starter and introducing Ford whenever he can. The strategy hasn't worked and Ford is off to Bath. I know it's not the popular view but I would have gone with George as my first choice 10 this season even knowing that it risked losing Floody. I personally think that Ford is pure class, that he'd very quickly develop to be better than Toby and that our long term interest would have been better served by prioritising him. I appreciate that the majority here and the coaches think otherwise.

Our tradition is clear to the players - you have to EARN the shirt, it can never just be given, that would be the wrong message to send out to the whole squad.

Ford, in his 9 starts has not come anywhere near to earning the first-choice 10 shirt, not even close actually.

I liked the 'survival of the fitest through natural selection' analogy. He is moving to a weaker pride to try to become top dog, and at 19 that is hardly a quality that bodes well for his future! And what must young Heathcote be thinking?

I take your point but it's not always as simple as that. Ford was the player in possession of the shirt at the end of last season. He'd played a blinder in a high pressure semi against Saracens and held his own in the final, not to mention the LV semi and final. Agreed he's not outshone Toby this year yet but as the cliche goes form is temporary and class is permanent. At some point you have to give the younger player the chance to prove themselves - Manu was started regularly when he was very raw there were no doubt more experienced players who were a safer bet.

It must have been agonizing for the coaches and trying to keep both was a fine aim but it hasn't worked and I fear it will come back to haunt us.

[SilebyTiger]

Well he's having a mare for the Saxons tonight.

[MJ Chairman]

Well he's having a mare for the Saxons tonight.

Not great is he. Amongst all the young talent on display the star so far is the Scottish full back Greg Tonks

[LE18]

Who is going to be the first to say we shouldnt have let him go? Tonks that is.

[jgriffin]

Who is going to be the first to say we shouldnt have let him go? Tonks that is.

I'm sure someone will point out that getting an A game for Scotland is not progression from Tigers....

[LE18]

Where does that put the likes of Crane then?

[sam16111986]

Crane was the best the Saxons had to offer giving a Cozza esque performance.

[MJ Chairman]

Crane was the best the Saxons had to offer giving a Cozza esque performance.

Would agree with that, but that itself says a lot about the Saxons backs especially.

Ford wasn't great he kicked his goals an there were a couple of low clearance kicks that were excellent. But in general his kicking from hand was poor and his distribution was woeful. Round 1 to Heathcote on that display.
Also his tackling from the side and behind is fine, but there are far too many occasions when people running at him are able to fend and just take him with them over the gain line.

Always rated Tonks but I think I'm right in saying his move to 15 is relatively recent. On that form he won't be far off a full Scottish cap.

[drc_007]

Quote from Telegraph comments regarding Ford in the Saxons match

"And there was Cockerill's decision making vindicated in the flesh.
If Flood had been banned, as perhaps he should, for the Ospreys and Toulouse games recently, there is every chance Leicester would not have been in the knockout stages of the HC this year. Ford might well become a top international. He isn't close to it just now, and an ambitious club can't afford to hand him a start without taking a risk. On last night's showing, Bath would be taking a bit of a risk selecting him over Heathcote."

[MurphysLaw]

[quote="MJ Chairman"][quote="sam16111986"]Crane was the best the Saxons had to offer giving a Cozza esque performance.[/quote]

Would agree with that, but that itself says a lot about the Saxons backs especially.

Ford wasn't great he kicked his goals an there were a couple of low clearance kicks that were excellent. But in general his kicking from hand was poor and his distribution was woeful. Round 1 to Heathcote on that display.
Also his tackling from the side and behind is fine, but there are far too many occasions when people running at him are able to fend and just take him with them over the gain line.

Always rated Tonks but I think I'm right in saying his move to 15 is relatively recent. On that form he won't be far off a full Scottish cap.[/quote]

I broadly agree with your summary, excepting Ford did miss a very kickable penalty in the second half, which if scored might have made a big difference at the end.

Also, I think Tonks had a fine game. He has played at FB for quite a while, I think. He certainly played there for Saints when he went to them.

[PM76]

Quote from Telegraph comments regarding Ford in the Saxons match

"And there was Cockerill's decision making vindicated in the flesh.
If Flood had been banned, as perhaps he should, for the Ospreys and Toulouse games recently, there is every chance Leicester would not have been in the knockout stages of the HC this year. Ford might well become a top international. He isn't close to it just now, and an ambitious club can't afford to hand him a start without taking a risk. On last night's showing, Bath would be taking a bit of a risk selecting him over Heathcote."

Ford's situation summed up perfectly!! A surprisingly accurate piece of journalism too.

[Sabre Tiger]

Most of this conjecture about Ford's potential and place at Tigers is now immaterial because when all said and done the club has enough pulling power to attract a good young player from another club who's been cosseted and nurtured as Ford has here. So all's fair in love and war. If there's one club that can turn a good player into a very good player it's Leicester. We shouldn't worry as some of Cocker's signings of unknown players have been outstanding because they've bought into the Leicester way. It's time to back Bowden, give him some game time and really get behind him. I wish George Ford well because he is potentially a good England player of the future but I think he's made a big mistake. If he 'comes back to haunt us' like other players who have left for the Rec in recent years then the Rec will become a further extension of Welford Road Cemetry!

[4071]

Always rated Tonks but I think I'm right in saying his move to 15 is relatively recent. On that form he won't be far off a full Scottish cap.

You may have got that impression because the single LV Cup appearance he was given at Tigers, before they decided he was never going to make the grade, was at centre. But even then he was primarily a FB who could also cover at centre.

At Nottingham, he was playing a fair bit in the centres but that was more a demonstration of his versatility - he also played FH for them. At Saints he was Foden's cover at fullback and that's where he played all his rugby for them. Though he played FH for their Wanderers side - again, proving versatility.

At Edinburgh the same - he is the fullback, but has covered other positions.



And yes, we should have kept him. Or at least given him the opportunity to show what he could do for Tigers. He was always a good player (he was in the U20s for two seasons as he was playing for them a year ahead) and giving him a single LV Cup game before sending him to the Graveyard of Academy Ambition at Nottingham was typically poor judgement.