England....... Where to begin

[SimonP in Surrey]

Another question is the best style for England. Out AB the ABs ? Out Smash the books ? Out think the Aussies ? SCW suggested a lightening fast pace ? Harlequins have a good style actually ..based on offloads and swarming tight before finding space out wide behind the retreating defences.

What should England do ?

[SilebyTiger]

The coaching team is utterly uninspiring. Farrell and Catt's approach to attack is pathetic and blunt. Lancaster just doesn't have the experience and knowledge. Ideal team with everyone fit should bit

Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole
Lawes, Parling
Croft, Morgan, Armitage

Youngs, Flood
Twelvetrees, Manu
Ashton, Foden, Wade

[drc_007]

"The former England boss turned up the heat on current coach Stuart Lancaster by slamming his side for not taking points when they were on offer in a keenly-contested clash at Twickenham"

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/ ... 73318.html

[jgriffin]

Reminds me of the time we spurned the points playing Wales and Scotty Gibbs had the last laugh!
Unless it's late doors, 'take the 3 and have the pill back at the kick-off' used to be the mantra.

PS I think that SL has not necessarily got the best players available - e.g. Marler IMO is bulled up by the Londoncentric media.

[mol2]

Much was made of tactical errors by the press, captain & and coach but the reality was more about certain players limitations being exposed. A lot of waffle was spoken about Floody running into trouble - the reality is that the flankers and inside centre were simply not there for the offload.

Our flankers were not up to it. Wood looked far better than Johnson. The Aussie 7 and our own were chalk & cheese. Personally I'd move Robshaw across & bring in Armitage although I do wonder if Robshaw is a bit lightweight. We have to steal ball and use it - rather than do the premiership thing of waiting for the opposition to cough it up. Why wasn't Morgan on the bench as an impact player, puzzles me?

Marler's yet to be an international class scrummager and the difference his substitution made was significant. Corbisero looked fit today so must return with Vunipola on the bench.

Care seemed to drift off when the Aussies had the ball - leaving nobody to sweep up.
Playing 2 outside centres was daft, Barritt lacks the distribution skills and moved across into the space that should have been Manu's. Consequently what little ball we had didn't get to the outside centre let alone the wings.

Parling played well as did Launchbury when he came on. Cole and Youngs played well enough in the loose, but Marler's frailty destabilised the front row in the set piece preventing Cole from munching his opponent in the way the French pack did.

[Isambard]

Let's have the best back row picked first and the captaincy decided later. Any good side as we know has several leaders.

[G.K]

"The former England boss turned up the heat on current coach Stuart Lancaster by slamming his side for not taking points when they were on offer in a keenly-contested clash at Twickenham"

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/ ... 73318.html

I've seen a few articles and appearances etc. by Woodentop recently, it seems to me that he is obvioulsy taking the chance to get himself a new job in some shape or form now that the 2012 Olympics are out of the way.

[Bill W (2)]

IMHO Barritt is not a world class 12, Marler is not a world class prop and Robshaw is not a world class openside.

But then Lamcaster and Farrell are not world class coaches.

I fear WC 2015 is lost.

I also fear it will not be a success financially.

[SimonP in Surrey]

Bill with the greatest of respect .... And I know you know your stuff .... World class can't be applied to any England players. In 2093 we had maybe 3,4 or 5 players who would be in a world 15.

Now our best players of Cole and with the right mid field Ashton .. Would at best make a 23 and many e.g. Farrell would not be in he top 4 or 5 for their position

[Smurphswillgetya]

Bill with the greatest of respect .... And I know you know your stuff .... World class can't be applied to any England players. In 2093 we had maybe 3,4 or 5 players who would be in a world 15.

Now our best players of Cole and with the right mid field Ashton .. Would at best make a 23 and many e.g. Farrell would not be in he top 4 or 5 for their position

Blindly we have to wait another 80 years before we have 3 world class players

[Bill W (2)]

Bill with the greatest of respect .... And I know you know your stuff .... World class can't be applied to any England players. In 2093 we had maybe 3,4 or 5 players who would be in a world 15.

Now our best players of Cole and with the right mid field Ashton .. Would at best make a 23 and many e.g. Farrell would not be in he top 4 or 5 for their position

I would not suggest that to be "world class" you need to be the best player in the world in your position. I would suggest that you need to be in the top 10.

I agree with you that Farrell is not, nor IMHO are Marler, Robshaw or Barritt.

By the same measure Lancaster, IMHO, is not a world class coach.

In 2003 I think the entire England squad would have met the criterion.

[beech]

I am concerned at the suggestion by some that Corbesiero should be in the front row against South Africa. After his struggle against a young and inexperienced Tiger's prop yesterday he will be destroyed in an international.

If England had kicked for goal when they had the opportunities then we could well be discussing a victory rather than a defeat. Those situations require the captain to lead the team. I believe that this was a chance wasted.

[adamv6]

= Morgan is a bullock - picked with TTTE as impact sub or vice versa
= ball playing 12 needed (put your choice here)
= play BY/Flood or Care/ANO, not Care/Flood

Yup, couldn't agree more. I struggle to see what Care brings to the 9 shirt for England. IMHO, Youngs is a far better option, especially when Flood is on the pitch.

Morgan should be at 8, TTTE may be the form #8, but he isn't the best.

Keep both Farrells away from England. Daddy Farrell hasn't a clue, Junior Farrell can kick a ball, that's it. That pass to Manu was shocking, I would have berate Cole for throwing that pass, but coming from a 10/12 it was beyond words.

Woods made a big impact when he came on, which just goes to show that he should start. For me, England were missing a key man yesterday, Croft. Not that one man can change a team, but he brings so much to a side, and he is almost irreplaceable.

One thing I find comical about this thread is that people are picking apart the England coaching staff after a few games together, but have let the Tigers coaching staff get away with worse for a few seasons now...

Mondays, got to love 'em

[jgriffin]

Not so, we have the doom-mongers and the nay-sayers (like me) - I've been putting the boot into MOC for two seasons or more. I daren't be too harsh on RC cos I'm married to a Cockerill (a female one, that is ).

The issue with SL & Co is that some of us did not buy into the media and RFU :censored:. Lancaster got the job because he wasn't Mallett or indeed any other tried and tested manager/coach, and the gang at HQ couldn't hire a guy who wanted nothing to do with Squeaky. SL is a novice, so are Farrell and Catt.

Compare SL's record at the end of the AIs with Johnno's? Priceless.

PS what's the betting that no heads roll except those least at fault such as Manu who will get shunted out to the wing to accommodate Farell or Joseph.

[The Boy Dave]

PS what's the betting that no heads roll except those least at fault such as Manu who will get shunted out to the wing to accommodate Farell or Joseph

You could be spot on!
Those behind the scenes look set to take advantage come the six nations and don't be suprised to see a 9-10 of Care and Farrell come out of this!
I'm sure we will squeeze through another six nations with some optomism but come the big boys it won't make one bit of difference to play in a team that canno't clear out a ruck properly!