Saracens the future of Rugby - Glo and Tigers the naysayers?

[Mpegg44]

http://www.rugbyfancast.com/2012/10/blo ... e-of-rugby

well written piece but would we ever consider anything like this?

[tigerburnie]

As it states, as a well supported and financially stable club we don't have to.
We have a fairly large travelling fan base that might consider the club travelling to a neutral ground away from the rugby heartland as an adventure occasionally and it might help spread the rugby word.
If the talks fail in the re-vamping of the Heineken Cup we may well be doing this if a new competition sees us travelling to new opposition.

[Purebob]

The writer seems to have a giant chip on his shoulder for Leicester and Gloucester and the business model we have used.

My answer to his question " What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?" is either move down leagues to match your supporter base or move to a rugby hotbed that needs a club. Surviving only dependent upon a foreign billionaire's caprice is not a dignified way for a club to progress IMO.

[drc_007]

The writer seems to have a giant chip on his shoulder for Leicester and Gloucester and the business model we have used.

My answer to his question " What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?" is either move down leagues to match your supporter base or move to a rugby hotbed that needs a club. Surviving only dependent upon a foreign billionaire's caprice is not a dignified way for a club to progress IMO.

Or you could reach out into the local community and build your fan base, Tigers have not always had 20K crowds.

[bluntiger]

I am not sure the arguement really stands up even if it is well written. Statements like:

'In South Africa, for a number of reasons, Sarries are the first team most people associate with English rugby. In Belgium, a fast-growing rugby nation, since last weekend Sarries are basically synonymous with English rugby ......'

Is that really true? I suspect not. Belguim a fast-growing rugby nation?
Sarries are the first team most people assosciate with English rugby?

It seems that the truth is that Sarries failed to build on the period where they were getting crowds ' ... well into five figures on a regular basis.' That was the early days of professionalism and had they build on that then, they could well have been financially sustainable now.

The article is also tinged with positive slant, unrealistic optimism sneering jealousy and excuses. You could just as easily see Saracens marketing tricks as just grasping at straws and gimmicks. You could say that recruiting SA players is just trying to attract SA supporters in London but clearly has not worked. You could argue that their new 'home' is self-defeating since it is temporary and capacity limited to 10000 and for a club to be financially sustainable requires circa 15000 (and increasing) crowds regularly. And if they have spend £20M on this mostly temporary capacity-limited 'home', why not go the whole hog and build a new, permanent 20000 capacity home for £30M? (the KP Stadium cost £37M and holds 32000+, Salford City Stadium cost £16M and holds 12000).

[DickyP]

Mustn't slam the writer too much - it's a refreshing change for someone to actually address the problems of what do you do if you aren't in a traditional rugby town?

Must also say that I don't detect the giant chip alluded to - a degree of envy perhaps but the preamble about Tigers, saints and Glos was a sensible way to introduce the subject.

[The Boy Dave]

" What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?"

I personally believe and it is only my opinion before I get absolutely slated, that Leicester is not the hotbed of rugby that people often suggest. Take away the fans that travel from Derby, Nottingham, Harborough, Melton, Hinckley, Coalville, Ashby, Nuneaton, etc etc and I don't think the stadium would be anywhere near even half full. Tigers have a strong following from across the country.

[Tigerpete]

I think Sarries have lost the plot to be honest. While they keep coming up with cunning plans they are not putting down roots and developing a core fan base...

[Bill W (2)]

I think Sarries have lost the plot to be honest. While they keep coming up with cunning plans they are not putting down roots and developing a core fan base...

Perhaps this is the "something special"?

In the long term "no fan base" = "no revenue"

[CitizenSmiff]

The writer seems to assume that if a value is difficult to uphold then it's somehow disposable, a view that goes against what rugby and indeed sport in general stands for. My favourite line has to be-

(supporters from around the country seem to have unearthed hitherto-unknown passions for accountancy in the pursuit of mocking us)

Perhaps if they didn't act so damned pleased with themselves we wouldn't feel the need to puncture their balloon with such enthusiasm.

[Nailsworthstiger]

" What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?"

I personally believe and it is only my opinion before I get absolutely slated, that Leicester is not the hotbed of rugby that people often suggest. Take away the fans that travel from Derby, Nottingham, Harborough, Melton, Hinckley, Coalville, Ashby, Nuneaton, etc etc and I don't think the stadium would be anywhere near even half full. Tigers have a strong following from across the country.

Yes Tigers have a strong following across the country as I suspect the vast majority of these fans have left Leicester and Leicestershire (me included) to set up home elsewhere but remain loyal to the club. You only have to look on the location of the posters to see this.

Rugby is not like football where young kids become supporters of the team that is at the top of the Premiership or are winning the cups. That sort of following with kids does not happen in rugby. You just wouldn't see kids from far flung places suddenly becoming Quins or Safa's fans because they are the last 2 Premiership winners.

[DickyP]

" What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?"

I personally believe and it is only my opinion before I get absolutely slated, that Leicester is not the hotbed of rugby that people often suggest. Take away the fans that travel from Derby, Nottingham, Harborough, Melton, Hinckley, Coalville, Ashby, Nuneaton, etc etc and I don't think the stadium would be anywhere near even half full. Tigers have a strong following from across the country.

Yes Tigers have a strong following across the country as I suspect the vast majority of these fans have left Leicester and Leicestershire (me included) to set up home elsewhere but remain loyal to the club. You only have to look on the location of the posters to see this.

Rugby is not like football where young kids become supporters of the team that is at the top of the Premiership or are winning the cups. That sort of following with kids does not happen in rugby. You just wouldn't see kids from far flung places suddenly becoming Quins or Safa's fans because they are the last 2 Premiership winners.

All depends on your definition of local I suppose. I travel 45 miles each way to support what is my nearest team. I started to support them when we lived at the other end of the country because my daughter chose them as 'her team' because she liked Rory Underwood, and then we moved to live nearby.

On the other hand I used to regularly travel almost 300 miles to watch my 'local' NFL team.

[snoopster]

Is that really true? I suspect not. Belguim a fast-growing rugby nation?

Actually this bit is true, I was reading something about it recently.
Though I can't remember the actual figures - it is still pretty small there, it just started off as really small.

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

" What if your club is not in a rugby hotbed city?"

I personally believe and it is only my opinion before I get absolutely slated, that Leicester is not the hotbed of rugby that people often suggest. Take away the fans that travel from Derby, Nottingham, Harborough, Melton, Hinckley, Coalville, Ashby, Nuneaton, etc etc and I don't think the stadium would be anywhere near even half full. Tigers have a strong following from across the country.

"Harborough, Melton, Hinckley, Coalville, Ashby."

Aren't the majority of those in Leicestershire?

The amount of amateur clubs in Leicestershire and the proximity to the town of Rugby where the game was invented would suggest that Leicestershire is a hotbed of Rugby. I think you'll find even as a complete beginner that if you looked for a game that you wouldn't struggle to find somewhere to play.

Also in the same sentence he mentions 'Little or no competition from the round ball game'. I think having a football club that is in or around the top 30 clubs in England is enough competition. Worcester are also very close to a number of Premier League Football teams.

If Saracens had done what we did which is to stay where our supporters are and invest in the club and the community instead of taking the easier option and moving to a football ground then they would not have this problem.

The writer appears to be unaware that moving games abroad sets a dangerous precedent and may lead to other clubs following suit. I don't mind clubs going on tours during the off season but regular season games should not be played in far flung reaches where both home supporters and away supporters from the clubs involved are excluded. There is also the risk of extra fatigue from travelling to somewhere in the United States or Dubai to play a Premiership game on a Saturday and then having to travel back for your home game the next week.

[jgriffin]

There's a lot of rugby hotbeds with no AP team. Saffacens are, with Wasps, Irish and Welsh, damned by the 'London' prefix. If Saffacens or any of those set up shop in the Birmingham area (for example) and became that locality's team playing on Friday nights, after a few seasons they may well be established in the same way Tigers, Glaws or Stains are.
Certainly they may succeed in Copthall and I hope they do, as I do with Oxford Welsh, Reading Vaguely Irish and Wycombe Wastrels.