Jordan Crane

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redrugertiger
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by redrugertiger » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:48 pm

champanzie wrote:Just need to vent a bit of frustration about him in the game today and previous weeks. He is not a leader on the field and can't understand why he is captain. Waldrom is a much better 8 than Crane so why take one of our best players and put him in a position he can not play.

Tigers lost the game today because of silly mistakes that were avoidable and giving away stupid penalties. Tigers need to improve a lot before next weekend or will can kiss the Heineken cup good bye.
have to strongly agree with the above comments!

Lets hope we can have some insight to a BR solution in the A game tonight!!! :smt041

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Southernsoftie » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:31 am

Adamv6

An entirely reasonable disagreement of opinion.

I will stand by my assertion that Crane's carries do not lead to quicker ball though I may be guilty of slight exaggeration, in my view he is insufficiently dynamic to really accelerate the delivery.

In terms of turnovers, I confess I was thinking of Waldrom getting isolated and getting pinged for holding on or losing the ball to good work on the ground rather than spills. However given he carries the ball a lot, turnovers are to be expected esp in conditions like Sunday. I believe, as you obv do not, that Waldrom is a net positive even given the turnovers he might be guilty of. I can't concede that he is easy to put to ground, compared with Crane.

The tackling, as you say, is very subjective. I don't believe that Waldrom is esp. weak in this area but I will watch him this weekend with an eagle eye.

My point about the work in the contact area is that given a choice, I would always rather have my slower, less mobile, players in contact and faster, better ball carriers, standing off. This is as true for Waldrom Crane as it is for the backs. Of course you would rather have Castro in contact and Manu standing off to cover the wider channels, same in my view with Crane/Waldrom.

I was referring rather spitefully to Crane getting the big up from SBarnes in the game against Sale about his "control at the base" when he promptly tried to pick up and knocked on. I agree he has better footwork at the base but I would question what net benefit that brings us when he is so ineffective a ball carrier. Waldrom isn't THAT bad. It's a bit like TY's throwing in, it costs us but the net positives given his ball carrying, scrummaging and work in open play still means he is now a better pick than Chuter. Not many perfect players out there and for me, Cranes "control at the base" is a pretty negligible positive over Waldrom.

We agree, Crane's selection as captain is bizarre but c'est la vie Cockerill. I would be happier with Kitchener, Parling, Cole, Flood, Allen or Hamilton as captain instead of Crane who may be getting the 8 shirt a la Borthwick for England. Not worth his place but we made him captain so we have to pick him?

We also agree he is short of form and match fitness. My question to you is, is he fit but just not the player he was?

Further, we agree Toulouse back row is awesome.

I will watch for turnovers from Waldrom next weekend and you watch Crane and see if he achieves true gain line success. Let's reconvene :-)

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Chobbsy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:38 pm

[quote="champanzie"]Just need to vent a bit of frustration about him in the game today and previous weeks. He is not a leader on the field and can't understand why he is captain. Waldrom is a much better 8 than Crane so why take one of our best players and put him in a position he can not play.

Tigers lost the game today because of silly mistakes that were avoidable and giving away stupid penalties. Tigers need to improve a lot before next weekend or will can kiss the Heineken cup good bye.[/quote]

Sorry to say this, he looked very one dimensional and not at all match fit, I think we lost a lot of forward momentum having him and not Thomas at 8.
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sam16111986
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:28 pm

Sorry to say this, he looked very one dimensional and not at all match fit, I think we lost a lot of forward momentum having him and not Thomas at 8.
I think Crane looked creamed. We are asking too much of him and I hope he is dropped to the bench this weekend. When fit and in form he is our best 8 but after over a year out he isn't at that level yet. We need to be careful and ease him back into the action a little more.

I thought Waldrom was actually quite poor. Time after time he ran straight into the nearest defender and when he insisted on doing that from the kick returns rather than passing out to Hamilton or Morris it allowed Tolouse to gain easy metres and move the play up to halfway instead of being in their own 22.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by sapajo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:36 pm

sam16111986 wrote: I thought Waldrom was actually quite poor. Time after time he ran straight into the nearest defender and when he insisted on doing that from the kick returns rather than passing out to Hamilton or Morris it allowed Tolouse to gain easy metres and move the play up to halfway instead of being in their own 22.
Concur TTTE was guilty of ignoring the opportunity to launch a fast counter attack by not passing to the likes of Hamilton and Morris on every occasion after he fielded the ball between the half way line and our 22.
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by champanzie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:39 pm

Again in the game today I agree with what I said. Jordan Crane did not lead the side, Murphey was coming on to give advise. Crane is one dimensional and predictable. I thought when Waldrom was much better today with ball in hand. His offloading and game vision is much better compared to Crane. I hope cockerill can see that Crane is not performing and will pick a different captain and Waldrom at 8
Come on you tigers!

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Southernsoftie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:52 pm

Watched JC with a closer eye in today's game and I didn't see anything to make me change my opinion of him. A couple of gain line successes by a yard or two but as a ball carrier he is largely ineffective. Goodish work rate and tackling was ok but not without fault and also a turnover while carrying.

Flood for captain and back row of Mafi/Thorpe/Waldrom IMHO.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Oadby35 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:54 pm

Ill just ask the simplest of questions who'll start at number 8 for England ?
And there ill rest my case
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Big Dai » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:54 pm

Southernsoftie wrote:Watched JC with a closer eye in today's game and I didn't see anything to make me change my opinion of him. A couple of gain line successes by a yard or two but as a ball carrier he is largely ineffective. Goodish work rate and tackling was ok but not without fault and also a turnover while carrying.

Flood for captain and back row of Mafi/Thorpe/Waldrom IMHO.
Not sure about flood for captain but agree on Crane
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Isambard » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:31 pm

I'd like to see Flood as captain when GM is not available. Crane was mostly ineffective today whereas the mighty Waldrom was everywhere.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:18 pm

I think Crane had a good game today, as good as Waldrom at least. He didn't always go to ground, there were a couple of offloads by him - one of which would have sent Parling through had Parling not over-ran it slightly so the pass was slightly forward. He tackled very well and cleared out well, better than Waldrom did. He's never going to set the world alight in the opposition 22 like Waldrom can but Crane is much more effective when Tigers are in their own 22. To say he doesn't make yards is just blatant bias against him.

I don't see why posters try and compare the two players - they have completly different strengths to add to a game. And with out a decent 7 (wasn't that impressed with Thorpe in the Sale game myself) I have no problem with picking Waldrom at 7. To be fair up until this afternoons game it was Mafi who I thought was the weakest pick of the back row, don't think he has showed any of last seasons form until today.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Jose » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:52 pm

Big Dai wrote:
Southernsoftie wrote:Watched JC with a closer eye in today's game and I didn't see anything to make me change my opinion of him. A couple of gain line successes by a yard or two but as a ball carrier he is largely ineffective. Goodish work rate and tackling was ok but not without fault and also a turnover while carrying.

Flood for captain and back row of Mafi/Thorpe/Waldrom IMHO.
Not sure about flood for captain but agree on Crane
+1

I've been a fan in the past and might be again if he re-captures some form, but Crane is still not at the races (which is hardly surprising after a full year out). Crane should be getting back to form and match fitness via the A team games. Waldrom is a much better 8 on present form and we need to play a 7 at 7. We can't afford to give teams a 10 point lead before remembering we have to compete at the breakdown.
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Granby » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:06 pm

Does anyone other than RC have any idea why Crane is made captain of the side ahead of Parling?
How he is expected to know what is going on/offer the ref useful advice when he spends all game with his nose two inches above the grass is hard to work out.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:17 pm

Granby wrote:Does anyone other than RC have any idea why Crane is made captain of the side ahead of Parling?
Probably every other player in the squad knows why. You have to have the respect of all the players, or at least the vast majority, to be captain, its not just about being a popular player and has nothing to do with what the fans think.

Borthwick has captained every side he has played for at one point or another but no one on this board ever suggested he was their idea for captain, clearly he gains the respect of his coach and team mates no matter what the fans think.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by G.K » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:33 am

Granby wrote:Does anyone other than RC have any idea why Crane is made captain of the side ahead of Parling?
How he is expected to know what is going on/offer the ref useful advice when he spends all game with his nose two inches above the grass is hard to work out.
He's bought the photos off Smiffy?
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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