Jordan Crane

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champanzie
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Jordan Crane

Post by champanzie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:07 pm

Just need to vent a bit of frustration about him in the game today and previous weeks. He is not a leader on the field and can't understand why he is captain. Waldrom is a much better 8 than Crane so why take one of our best players and put him in a position he can not play.

Tigers lost the game today because of silly mistakes that were avoidable and giving away stupid penalties. Tigers need to improve a lot before next weekend or will can kiss the Heineken cup good bye.
Come on you tigers!

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:09 pm

does seem odd that you take England's 1st choice 8 and move him just to play a man that's been out for a year plus and cannot possible be fully up to speed

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Darc Tiger » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:10 pm

He isn't impacting as he used to pre-injury. Needs to be dropped unfortunately, and I like him! Cockers won't though.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by jgriffin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:12 pm

Crane epitomises all that is wrong with Cockers - who I continue to support as DOR, but I worry that his blindspots are becoming his unsurmountable handicaps (viz selection, substitution, Plan B).
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by sapajo » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:12 pm

Darc Tiger wrote:He isn't impacting as he used to pre-injury. Needs to be dropped unfortunately, and I like him! Cockers won't though.
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Big Dai » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:20 pm

Crane is neither a captain nor our best 8. IMNSHO!

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by PM76 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Darc Tiger wrote:He isn't impacting as he used to pre-injury. Needs to be dropped unfortunately, and I like him! Cockers won't though.
Completely agree, I still think he is getting used to playing again.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:27 pm

PM76 wrote:
Darc Tiger wrote:He isn't impacting as he used to pre-injury. Needs to be dropped unfortunately, and I like him! Cockers won't though.
Completely agree, I still think he is getting used to playing again.
isn't that what the A League side is for?

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by PM76 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:32 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
PM76 wrote:
Darc Tiger wrote:He isn't impacting as he used to pre-injury. Needs to be dropped unfortunately, and I like him! Cockers won't though.
Completely agree, I still think he is getting used to playing again.
isn't that what the A League side is for?
Yes but we are in a bit of a backrow crisis; Salvi, Jooste and Croft are injured after the retirements of Woods and Newby. The question is would Brett Deacon or Thorpe have played/ fared better than an out of form Crane?? I think they might have done but I can see why Cockers chose Crane ahead them as when he starts firing he offers much more than either of them can.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:38 pm

PM76 wrote: Yes but we are in a bit of a backrow crisis; Salvi, Jooste and Croft are injured after the retirements of Woods and Newby. The question is would Brett Deacon or Thorpe have played/ fared better than an out of form Crane?? I think they might have done but I can see why Cockers chose Crane ahead them as when he starts firing he offers much more than either of them can.
Waldrom is the best 8 we've got, so the question is is it worth moving him out of position to accommodate and subpar Jordan Crane instead of playing a 6 at 6, even if they might not be as good?

That is something the England Football team have done for years, picked the best players instead of the best team. Crane & Waldrom seem like Gerrard/Lampard in the situation 2 players that shouldn't be in the same side constantly being picked together, they (Crane & Waldrom) play the same role, although with different strengths, I would always favour playing your best players in their best position, atm TTTE isn't being played in his best position.

champanzie
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by champanzie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:52 pm

I always thought that cockers did well underneath someone else. He's a good coach but does not always make the right decision with selection and substitutions. I would prefer to see Waldrom at 8 and someone like Brett deacon at flank. Crane has looked sluggish and off the mark since he has came back. I can't see what cockers sees in his performances to pick him each week and as captain??
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by adamv6 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:54 am

I for one was overjoyed to see Crane at 8. Waldrom has appalling control of the ball at the back of the scrum, whether its going forward or backwards. Against Toulouse we needed a controlled ball at 8.

Everyone rates Waldrom as a great number 8 based on his running game. This running game is great when he starts in the 12/13 channel, but in the tight he gets hit hard, driven back and loses ball more times that not. (Waldroms first season I think he was turned over on average 4 times a game, I don't think this has improved) Crane in the tight has an ability to turn slow ball into quick ball, by taking it one yard and getting it back quick.

Crane is a viable option in the lineout, Waldrom isn't. Crane is more committed and successful tackler than Waldrom, and is more industrious at the breakdown.

So, if you list all the roles you want a #8 to perform, Crane stands above Waldrom.

I think Waldrom can work at 6, but, is he a better strike runner than Croft or Mafi?

What made us look distinctly average on Sunday was a lack of backrow balance, caused by a missing #7.
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:58 am

Crane looked better yesterday in the Rain, but his selection is still wrong, if he had had 2x 80mins in the early A Team games it would of done him the world of good.

As for Captain, not doing it for me.
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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by Southernsoftie » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:41 am

adamv6 wrote:Everyone rates Waldrom as a great number 8 based on his running game. This running game is great when he starts in the 12/13 channel, but in the tight he gets hit hard, driven back and loses ball more times that not. (Waldroms first season I think he was turned over on average 4 times a game, I don't think this has improved) Crane in the tight has an ability to turn slow ball into quick ball, by taking it one yard and getting it back quick.

Crane is a viable option in the lineout, Waldrom isn't. Crane is more committed and successful tackler than Waldrom, and is more industrious at the breakdown.

So, if you list all the roles you want a #8 to perform, Crane stands above Waldrom.
I think it's great that you have clearly thought about the relative merits of Crane/Waldrom. I just think you are so wrong it makes me think you must be related?

The reason "everyone rates Wadrom as a great no 8" is because he is one.

There is obviously no dispute that in the wider channels Waldrom is head and shoulders better than the frankly pedestrian Crane. I think if you start viewing their relative performance with both eyes open you will see that even in the tight channels Waldrom seldom fails to get over the gain line which is certainly not the case with Crane who along with Parling seems never to have seen a gainline he could get across, instead, flopping to the ground at the first hint of contact. Sure, the ball might come back but not from a yard over the gainline! Furthermore, Jordan doesn't turn slow ball into quick ball, ever. What he does have is the reverse midas touch where he turns slow ball into slower ball.

As for Waldrom "losing the ball more times than not" that is just wrong. given he carries the ball 20 or more (my guess) times a game and get turned over once or twice a game, (also a guess) though none on Sunday, the only reason to say such a thing is blatant favourtism with no hint of objectivity.

Crane's tackling is not better than Waldrom's (imho) I watched him fall off one tackle in the first half and his lack of pace makes it hard for him to catch anyone who isn't seeking to run straight at him.

Crane does do more work in the contact zone but frankly I want my best ball carriers poised to run the ball if it gets turned over or cover the wider channels if it isn't. So I don't want Waldrom grubbing around on the floor.

The other things I have an issue with around Crane is his much vaunted control at the base which was shown up for what it is last week and his selection at captain where (again imho) he shows no aptitude.

Overall, Crane's selection ahead of Waldrom at 8 and as captain, is symptomatic of the wider problems around RC's selection inflexibility/misguided loyalty/poor decision making around club stalwarts who are no longer up to the job for reasons of form, fitness or age. Nobody is knocking their previous contributions to the cause but lets be honest about what they currently bring to the party.

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Re: Jordan Crane

Post by adamv6 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:06 pm

I think if you start viewing their relative performance with both eyes
I do. Everytime.
Jordan doesn't turn slow ball into quick ball, ever. What he does have is the reverse midas touch where he turns slow ball into slower ball.
I would say that is an exaggeration.
get turned over once or twice a game, (also a guess) though none on Sunday
Spilling the ball is a turnover, he did that a few times. He gets isolated as well, as is very easy to put to ground. I have a friend who coaches at a Welsh side we played against in 2010 HC, and he said they analysed Waldrom to the nth degree and worked out he was ripe to get turnovers from. Nothing I have seen has changed.
Crane's tackling is not better than Waldrom's (imho).
Watch the Sale game the week before for Cranes tackles on a thundering Powell. The season before, Powell came on and had Waldrom in his pocket within 5 minutes. This is just one example, I am sure we could play this game all day long.
Crane does do more work in the contact zone but frankly I want my best ball carriers poised to run the ball if it gets turned over or cover the wider channels if it isn't. So I don't want Waldrom grubbing around on the floor.
Are Manu, Allen, Smith, Flood, Mafi to mention just a few not our best ball carriers? Manu out tackles pretty much everyone on the pitch, so I think he can cover the 'wide' channels.
The other things I have an issue with around Crane is his much vaunted control at the base which was shown up for what it is last week
I must have missed that, please enlighten me?

I do agree that his selection as captain is a little bizarre, but out of our squad on Sunday, only Flood (IMHO) would have been a slightly better choice.

Crane is clearly lacking form and match fitness, and the inclusion of Mafi was strange, given that Thorpe played well against Sale.

To be fair to both Crane and Waldrom, the Toulouse back row is about as good as it gets outside of test match rugby, so looking average against them isn't tricky.
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