The problem at Tigers?

[Bill W (2)]

What Tigers need is another kick up the backside from Geordan, it seemed to do the trick last season.I get the impression that Geordan commands more respect from the players than Cockerill does, as from the lambasting our captain gave his mates on the pitch it seemed to make them stand up and take notice and went on that unbeaten run. I feel more of the same from Geordan will do wonders for team spirit.

Geordan as DoR, Austin as Backs Coach, Ben Kay as Forwards Coach?

The dream team!!!

[Smudge]

Let us for minute imagine that this is the correct way to go,which I for one don't agree with.
We all(that is the royal we,not me)know that there are players to replace other players to correct out woes,but apart from someone wanting " the lip" as a backs coach, who is going to be able to be our saviour?who is any good that is available.Pehaps Johnno can be put on a charging white steeed and come to save us from this impending doom.
Answers on a post card to P.Wheeler @ Welford Road.

Conor O'Shea for a start. He was available when we could have signed him.
Imagine what Rob Baxter the Exeter coach could achieve with Tigers resources.
Do you seriously believe there are no decent coaches here in the UK or in
all of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa?
Do you think having a contract will stop a top coach coming.
To coach a club like Tigers is every coach's dream. If we have a vacancy at the end of the season, (or before it if we go out of the HC), they will be queueing down the road for the job.
A club like Tigers needs, (nay deserves) a top coach.

[Bill W (2)]

. If we have a vacancy at the end of the season, (or before it if we go out of the HC), they will be queueing down the road for the job.
A club like Tigers needs, (nay deserves) a top coach.

Tigers track record of recruiting coaches is worse than Cockers use of substitutes!!

[jgriffin]

. If we have a vacancy at the end of the season, (or before it if we go out of the HC), they will be queueing down the road for the job.
A club like Tigers needs, (nay deserves) a top coach.

Tigers track record of recruiting coaches is worse than Cockers use of substitutes!!

Correct Bill! Precisely why I continue to argue it is not Cockers that needs to go - he represents the necessary continuity IMO. I think the Head Coach should go and be replaced pro tem by GM with a defence coach/advisor AND a forwards coach added. With the injuries currently we must resign ourselves to 'nearly there';innovation can be attempted!

[tigerburnie]

What Tigers need is another kick up the backside from Geordan, it seemed to do the trick last season.I get the impression that Geordan commands more respect from the players than Cockerill does, as from the lambasting our captain gave his mates on the pitch it seemed to make them stand up and take notice and went on that unbeaten run. I feel more of the same from Geordan will do wonders for team spirit.

I think you could be right about us missing Geordies influence and can agree he has the making of a coach for the Tigers.Not sure about DOR as that is a management job.Geordie might be good at that too, I just don't know.

[Big Dai]

What do you base this on Bill? as I have posted elsewhere recently,last seasons run was only short of perfect because we fell at the last hurdle.We broke records for the run of bonus points wins,outscored all in tries and came from a dreadfull start from 2nd bottom to second top.
I wish we could win the Heineken Cup every year as well as our current domestic success,8 finals in a row,the envy of all other clubs.
The problem at Welford Road on the pitch is that the game is evolving and we stole a march on most clubs,now some clubs have caught up. Look at top clubs like Harlequins,Northampton,Bristol and now Newcastle,relegated from the top table.Wasps,Sale,Worcester struggling in lower end of the league.
JG posted a thread on perspective,maybe you should try some,early in the season for doom and gloom again.You tried to cause unrest on here last year on your personal quest to change the coaches,you were wrong last year and you might be wrong again,time will tell.
The board will be watching how the club is progressing,in the past they have taken strong discisions,sure they will again if needed.

KEEP THE FAITH , Bill

What optimistic rhubarb is this? A season that was short of perfect because we fell at the last hurdle? In the prem maybe but in Europe we couldn't even crawl out of the group stage! I consider that WAY short of perfect!

But then it never will be perfect, will it! I have to agree with Bill that we looked limited on Saturday and were given a lesson by a better side. Normally I would add "on the day" here but I fear now this is not applicable.

We've been a bash and crash side for far too long and I feel we've been sussed out. Players? I think we've a more than good enough band of forwards if used wisely and rotated and substituted with intelligence. However we don't seem to be able off load and go to ground too quickly and too often.

The backs have concerned me for sometime. Upright citizens all of them....too upright and not fast enough. Again we seem to run into the brick wall, unable to side step it, find a gap in it or get over it. Plan A is all we seem to have.

Strategy and tactics are at fault......operationally I have faith. Strategy and tactics are the demain of the coaches. Operations are the domain of the players.

OK some will say this is doom and gloom. Up yours! I don't care. I'm a Tigers fan and that, to me, doesn't mean I have to accept all I see as right and proper.....a change is required. I hope I'll see some on Saturday. But I doubt it. I expect the same old drugery.

I really hope I'll be surprised.

[SilebyTiger]

I do believe that if we dont win a major trophy this season (HC or AP) cockerill will resign/be asked to move on. I think this would be a sensible option in the current situation. However I fully believe RC ad MOC can produce when it matters and learn from their mistakes. The toulouse away game is vital, come away from there with nothing and we can kiss goodbye to europe already in my eyes, we have to go for the win.

If the coaches left, anybody who says we wouldn't get a sufficient replacement is incorrect and maybe we should explore out of the 'leicester mould' with an experienced international head coach to take us into the future. Remember tigers thanks to our history and fanbase are the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in europe. There is no doubt that just our name alone would be able to attract star names to the club. We don't want to slip behind Harlequins in leading the future.

However, keep the faith in Cockers for now!

[RWA]

God's teeth ! Now we're dragging out the "Murphy turned the season around" when he had a stern word with the players. Wrong, wrong, wrong:smt018 Twelvetrees to return please - come on, you know you want to !

Dan Cole is an international prop and gaining respect world wide. Castro is no longer the force he was. We miss Ayerza. Croft has physicality and pace. Salvi was doing fine until Stuart Barnes said in commentary "at Bath he used to give away stupid penalties"...after which he promptly gave away a stupid penalty at Wembley and hasn't been the same since. Flood needs Youngs. Hawkins is injured, I say again, Hawkins is injured and can't play, because he's injured. Tom Youngs is a dynamo in the loose and tight - perhaps he's not working on his throwing during the week ? Actually, I'm sure he's hammering it day in day out to get things right. Harrison is still learning the game, his service hasn't been great - this has transferred to Flood and his confidence has gone, he'll come back stronger. This has also transferred to Allen, who is and will get better. Matt Smith is an honest player, if you cut him in half it would say Tigers from head to toe. He's not Manu though. The back 3 are solid, Goneva has pace, Geordan's best days are behind him - we need a new 15.

Backlash required against Exeter to get back on track. Keep the props on for the whole game.

[tigerburnie]

What do you base this on Bill? as I have posted elsewhere recently,last seasons run was only short of perfect because we fell at the last hurdle.We broke records for the run of bonus points wins,outscored all in tries and came from a dreadfull start from 2nd bottom to second top.
I wish we could win the Heineken Cup every year as well as our current domestic success,8 finals in a row,the envy of all other clubs.
The problem at Welford Road on the pitch is that the game is evolving and we stole a march on most clubs,now some clubs have caught up. Look at top clubs like Harlequins,Northampton,Bristol and now Newcastle,relegated from the top table.Wasps,Sale,Worcester struggling in lower end of the league.
JG posted a thread on perspective,maybe you should try some,early in the season for doom and gloom again.You tried to cause unrest on here last year on your personal quest to change the coaches,you were wrong last year and you might be wrong again,time will tell.
The board will be watching how the club is progressing,in the past they have taken strong discisions,sure they will again if needed.

KEEP THE FAITH , Bill

What optimistic rhubarb is this? A season that was short of perfect because we fell at the last hurdle? In the prem maybe but in Europe we couldn't even crawl out of the group stage! I consider that WAY short of perfect!

It's called stating the facts Dai,but what ever at the end of the day we both want a succesful Tigers team,how we get there is where we differ.

[Purebob]

In business if there is a downturn in the success of a system or project, one first looks to find what has changed since the last time it was measured and found to be successful.

We have begun this season without Alex, Horacio, YBY, Skivs, Marcos and have playe Quins without Manu and Smurf.

Quins had one single change from their absolute first pick squad when we played them.

Rugby teams are not mechanical devices that can simply have identikit parts swapped out and exchanged ( unless they are Saffers). The group of players who drove the second half of our season last year worked very well together in attack; should we be surprised that we are playing differently with at least seven players changed ?

Cockers certainly made some strange calls last week: Crane; leaving Flood on when he was sucking... but having new players all over the park surely did not help.

[g]

Blimey, Tigerburnie has agreed with something I've commented on. That's a first.

I think I need to go and lie down and get over the shock.

[Smudge]

Purebob wrote

Cockers certainly made some strange calls last week: Crane; leaving Flood on when he was sucking... but having new players all over the park surely did not help.

Actually although Skivs, Horatio and 36 are gone, there weren't that many new players out there.
In fact all we have seen so far is Gov and Andrew.
The bulk of the team have been with us for a while.
I would actually like to see Bowden etc in a Tiger's shirt.

[GS]

The problem at Tigers? It isn't the squad, they have the talent and capability to beat most, if not all, teams. Is it the coaches/management? I blow hot and cold on this one.

When the team run out onto the pitch they have a box full of sublime rugby and every now and again they open it and show us what they can do. Look at that first try against Wuss - potential Prem try of the season. Won the ball at the ruck just inside our 22 but instead of the usual boot to touch they chose to run it, with purpose, power and precision with the whole team looking like they believed a try was the only end the move could have.

Trouble is they then close the box and put a padlock on it. We all thought this was going to be a try-fest but no. The talent and belief that scores tries like that can suddenly evaporate.

The solution? I don't know. I'm not a concert pianist but I know when a piano is out of tune and/or it's being played badly. There are people who get paid for knowing how to play, teach music and tune pianos. I just long for the day when it all comes together and stays together.

[Purebob]

new

Depends what you mean by "new" doesn't it ?

People "new" to the first team vs the second half of last season:

Morris
Goneva
Andrew
Harrison
Crane
Youngs
Thompstone
Kitch ( arguably)

I think its naive to think that half the team can be unaccustomed to playing in that first team should bloodlessly perform exactly as their departed counterparts did, but maybe thats just me.

How many of our tries did Horacio and Alex score between them last year ?

[Crumblies]

Depends what you mean by "new" doesn't it ?

People "new" to the first team vs the second half of last season:

Morris
Goneva
Andrew
Harrison
Crane
Youngs
Thompstone
Kitch ( arguably)

Yes it does. And if I follow your reasoning correctly which seems to be that all these players are new to the squad and therefore no where near up to 'speed' yet, then for me it is another indictment of the coaches.

Harrison, Youngs and Kitchener have been around for sometime now if they are not yet bedded in whose fault is that? Could it be something to do with the Coaches and their use of replacements as many of us keep repeating ad-nauseum. If Crane wasn't ready to start on Saturday could his selection to start ahead of Waldrum be a bad decision by the coaches, or could it be because our Coach has now got a vendetta against Waldrum (as I beleive him to have) because of him declaring his availability for England.