Tigers v Quins

[Jose]

The tactics worked when we had the players in the 2nd half of last season!

I couldn't make it today and watched on TV. What went wrong:

11, 13, 14, 15 - Last year this was Alex, Manu, Agulla, Murphs - today it was Goneva, Smith, Morris, Hamilton. Is unsurprising we broke the line far less. To be fair to Flood and Allen, they're not doing a lot wrong. Both their games are based on the outside backs being able to make decent runs. Morris and Goneva have potential in this area, though I really want to see Morris at full back, as think it would give him more ball and a chance to add more. Smith and Hamilton are nothing more than solid club players and it shows. Smith still isn't an outside centre. He can't pass, and doesn't know how to attack as a 13. Hamilton is a legend and was good under the high ball, but is past the point in his career where he'll scare any opposition backs.

9 - Harrison. Finding it hard going at the moment and unsurprising given his age and experience. His general game is actually holding up reasonably well, though his passing is not helping the back line much. His breaks today late on stemmed from the fact that Quins were totally sure he had no running game at all by 60 mins and got complacent. Would stick with him in front of Phibbs. Whoever told him to try to make some breaks (or him if he saw it himself) was right, as him starting to pose a threat will give 10, 12 etc a bit more time and space.

8 - Crane. I like Crane, always have done. But his ideal games are from Nov-Mar in miserable conditions. When the pitches are hard and against a defence as good as Quins, is madness to pick him in front of Waldrom. Poses far less threat and one less option for the five-eighths.

6 - Mafi. Not found his form and fitness from end of last season yet. Obviously stick with him until he gets there.

Props - Think it was slightly bizarre to start with what appears to be the weaker combination, though supposed it was based on desire to really hurt them when they got tired/had to swap to their second choice props.

T Youngs = Struggled and missed at key points, but clearly has the potential and worth sticking with. I've seen international hookers with more experience throw much worse (Thompson, Regan, Ibanez all come to mind).

Ref - Nothing really awful, but they definitely got the rub. Suspect Robshaw and Care managed him well. Really should have been a yellow and/or penalty try at various points, in relation to slowing down, taking down mauls and collapsing scrums. To be fair to the ref, Quins were very cute and cynical in this area, and did well to stay right on the edge. Very Tigers with Neil Back-esque.

Solutions:
No Matt Smith at 13, Waldrom always at 8 when it's dry, Morris to 15, anybody to 13 (Allen at 13 with Bowden at 12? Is Bowden injured? Or can Thompstone play 13?), Start strongest props, bring Thompstone on earlier. Execute better in attack and be more cynical and clinical in defence when required. Give Ford a chance on 60/65 mins if it needs changing (not a criticism of Flood and would start Flood and Allen and change the backs outside them before changing them).

Not our finest day, but was a lot closer than the score suggested. Quins were exhausted and tackled themselves into oblivion as demonstrated by their injury tally.

[ellis9]

Did we play badly? No

Totally disagree. It was the worst performance I have seen in a long time. No desire, no commitment, no determination, no plan B and the backs need to improve VERY quickly. We cannot just pass the ball up and down the line and expect to score from it.

Massive improvement is needed, not just for next week but for the rest fo the season.

[youngtiger]

Hardly surprising that people are pretty upset with what happened today, but it really is sad that people think in one loss that the coaches ought to go. Really, get a grip. Coaches can't change individual performances, and as much as they're responsible for subs, the first pick XV should've done better.

Thought they got away with a great deal of offside on their defensive line which makes chance creation exceedingly difficult. However they did play quite a few moves and, was Mafi deeper he would've scored before the break, that's one chance, then we should've had one for what Pearson actually gave was 3 infringements at the maul within 5m, that's minimum penalty try territory. Plus Goneva through, and 2 breaks from Sam, particularly the one for Salvi.

1 or 2 injuries?- L Deacon, 2 scrum halves, Manu out, Geordan, could go on...

We're in a decent position and with some rotation today, should be ready for what's going to be a looong month. KEEP THE DAMN FAITH!!

[sjm]

Being a ST holder I am like most who went tonight could see that we could not play the same way without manu so why did we? also I have to say the ref had an awful game, sitting in the goldsmiths stand we could see that a quins player came in from the side leading up to there try and as the TMO was involved it should have been picked up and I must agree we were reffed out of the match. But overall although we were poor a LBP might have been fairer result, first two matches we scored 10 tries the last two only 6 pens something is not quite right behind the scenes

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

At least Ford can play Monday Night...............but probably won't.

We have had A game plan since Paddy left & it needs the pack to be on top, can anyone name a game where we have won without the pack being on top?

When I started watching Tigers we won with a pack that were 2nd best at best most weeks, by playing with invention/skill & vision, as a club we lost that ability once we got a Front 5.

We must bounce back with a big & convincing win next week.

[Purebob]

Tigers seemed to revert to our pre-2010 gameplan of smashing the line and very little else. Quins were far too good for that to be efective yet we seemed to have nothing else in the tactic bag.

Crane made zero meters in every collision.

Flood was as poor as he has ever played for us: his desperate flat miss passes being intercepted , or the recipient catching a tackle at the same time as the ball.

Sam Harrison did not have a great game, care made him look like what he is: a former third choice who is stepping up for the first season.

Our discipline was awful

All told Quins beat us everywhere yesterday, which will either inspire us or will intimidate us. No shame is losing to such class as them, but it was disturbing to me how easily we were bested. We are desperately missing Alex and Horacio.

[TomR96]

I remember the time when Pat Howard got the Tigers unbeaten record at home to 2 years. I don't think we'll see that record again

[Tigerbeat]

first two matches we scored 10 tries the last two only 6 pens something is not quite right behind the scenes

I would have expected bonus point wins against Welsh and Worcester. In the last two weeks we have come up against 2 of the best teams in the Premiership with very tight defences.
How many tries did we concede in the Sarries and Quins game? One, which show that our defence is holding its shape.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I remember the time when Pat Howard got the Tigers unbeaten record at home to 2 years

We were up to about 5 seasons at one point, minus a dead rubber game in the Heineken when we couldn't make it out of the pool stage.

I remember a few seasons ago everyone raving about Gloucester unbeaten at home for the back half of one season and the beginning of the next....

[mike]

I feel some sympathy for Flood . He has a scrum half whose service is slow and erratic , and centres outside of him with Nil penetration . He is our one midfield threat and an obvious target for the Quins defence .With Ben Youngs , Manu and 12trees in the mix we did have some imagination and variety . As for selecting Crane at 8 instead of Waldrom - just stupid .

[Smudge]

I feel even more for George Ford.

[smalldell]

Thought we were a bit off the pace today but it is important to keep faith with the likes of Harrison and Youngs, they need to develop in this hostile environment and will benefit from it. I hope that Ford at least gets some reasonable game time next week, he has missed out for the last two games and he needs to play.

I found it very interesting to watch Robshaw, he frequently fell on the wrong side and slowed the ball down, a little bit like Richie McCaw for New Zealand. He got away with lots, but if keeps developing this way he is going to be world class.

Remeber, the aim for Christmas is to be in the top six as I see it and not have to wear ourselves out playing catch up.

[Soggypitch]

We lost but it wasn't a terrible performance. The reasons IMHO are as follows;

1. We were up against the best team in England on current form.

2. Quins had virtually a full strength side (minus Lowe) we were missing Croft, Youngs, Ayerza, Deacon, Manu, Murphy and Waldrom(!!!) from what would be our first choice team.

3. They were better than us in the set piece (always at the line out) although our scrum improved when Cole/Mulipola came on.

4. When we only have parity at best up front our backs tend to struggle and Flood, Allen and Harrison are not on form.

5. We butchered 3 or 4 great try scoring chances, if we'd got just one of them the result might have been different, with the crowd really getting fired up...and the players following suit.

6. It was nothing to do with the ref, despite the increasing football style chants/taunts coming from some close to me on the Crumbie terrace.

Exeter - I hope we see Ford at 10, Bowden at 12, Manu back at 13 and Waldrom from the start! I predict a good win next week.

It's not a bad start to the season, we will improve and I'm still confident of a top 2 finish.

[Big Dai]

Blaming the ref......how very Welsh! I don't think he did much wrong. Apart from pinging Youngs when held on the deck by Marler. Just because the decisions don't go your way does not mean they are wrong.

Zero progress made through several phases. IMHO Crane as captain was a mistake....give it to someone other than a shove it up the jumper merchant........Bubbles would have been my pick.

Tigers are fast becoming a dinosaur side. Yesterday's tactics giving today's results. Quins have evolved their game.

[SilebyTiger]

1: Mulipola was one of our best players at Wembley, Stankovich looks nothing special, why was fluffy on the bench?

2: What has Rob Hawkins done wrong? Always carries well and has a good line out throw, I'd like to at least see him on the bench.

3: Castro is passed it imo and his heart doesn't seem with it like it was 2-3 years ago. Cole is an established international and he should be given the main role (65 mins every match).

4&5: Locks were fine, Parling gave away a silly pen at the end and line out losses were down to poor throws, Kitchener was very strong in the loose.

6,7,8: Game changed a bit when Waldrom came on but Quins had enough control by then. Crane never got over the gainline, very odd to play him in a game as big as this. Cant complain about Salvi, Mafi isnt quite the player we saw last season.

9: Harrison is still learning and will only get better, distribution needs to improve quickly though.

10: Flood looks like a player with low confidence, place kicking shaky, kicking out of hand awful, for me Ford has to start against Exeter and Sale.

12&13: Bar one break from Smith, Allen and Smith showed no penetration again, a regular occurance against strong defensive sides. Maybe give Bowden a go at 12 along with Ford. We lack a 'pat howard' type player there who is like another 10. Bowden could be that man. Tuilagi will obviously come back into the frame.

11,14,15: When Morris and Goneva got into the game they looked dangerous, didnt use them enough though, restricted by our gameplan of trying to carry down the middle. Hamilton is nowhere near the player we first saw 3 years ago.

Think we also got our tactics wrong. What would we be wrong with playing an expansive game like we against LW and WW. Think there is an element of fear in the coaches of becoming unstuck and that is why we revert to a conservative game plan v stronger teams. Early season though and there were some positives! Also the ref wasnt the reason why we lost.