Welsh win appeal?

[Isambard]

Champions of the Championship are London Welsh so congrats to them and a well deserved and very hard earned promotion should now occur. The RFU have fallen into yet another large pit of manure on this one. Using "independent" consultants is so thin a smoke screen as for there to be no screen at all.

So the rugby was played and won.

Now the lawyers can earn some fees in the search of justice, aka a level playing field.

[Isambard]

and the Welsh continue to make some noise. I have written to the RFU to express my concern at the lack of fair treatment. I don't see how 4 clubs without primacy of tenure can be acceptable and one is not.

The season is over, this is bad for rugby overall.

[DickyP]

Congrats to London Welsh and I think they certainly deserved to win the 2 leg final: indeed I was somewhat disappointed with the Pirates in both games.

I too think the whole qualification thing is a farce but see no point in my repeating other forum members. As I suspected the Kassam looks a super venue for rugby.

My main reason for posting was to ask how many others who watched the final came to the same conclusion as me that the games themselves were not very good at all. In the second leg especially I though I was watching rugby league - one or two passes, run straight ahead, get tackled(, no contest for the ball), defence lines up across field, same again ... and on and on until someone makes a mistake and a soft breakaway try is scored. No flair, no imagination and no grunt to leaven the mix.

[MJ Chairman]

I think the point has been made elsewhere on the forum, that both sides would really struggle in the premiership without heavy recruitment.

[Phil B]

On this argument we would be irresponsible to let children into the world. Non?

[Jay C]

After reading the document provided on the Falcons thread (linky), I can only see a couple of minor problems where the rfu have decided that Welsh do not qualify.

As I read the document, all the "fails" result in a financial penalty only (ie you can still join our club if you pay up), except :

1. Primacy of tenure
2. 10,000 + stadium
3. 'clean stadia' policy
4. no sponsor same os other teams or a rival of the league sponsor
5. stick to the wage cap
6. provide an A league team and obey the Academy rules
7. adhere to the 2007 agreement for england players

which are policed by the RFU. So Welsh must have failed (according to the RFU) on more than one of the above.

The Kassam stadium agreement gives them 1,2 & 3 (although it may have been signed after the deadline - but surely that is not enough of an issue to fail the club ?)
Welsh would be aware of 4 and ensure they comply.
And I'm sure that 5 & 7 would not be a problem.
So that leaves 6, which I don't really know the details about, but again, surely not a problem ?

Does anyone have any further knowledge to shed on this please ?

Or, perhaps, an understanding of how the RFU allowed such 'closed shop' arrangements to be agreed by PRL all those years ago ??

Or why the PRL does not get its own house in order and insist that ALL clubs within the Prem have to abide by the above rules or face sanction ???

[mol2]

I guess it depends how hard they want to push it or how much cash they get given not to push it.

Ultimately many of these teams can't be promoted are based on critera that existing teams fail to meet.
I suspect if they threw money & a big enough legal team at it they would be able to make the case that as existing premiership teams fail to meet these criteria, in spite of many years notice, that they cannot be valid.

If London Welsh have the cash already then there is no way they will be bought off & a court battle may ensue. If they know they don't have the cash to survive the first season then it may be different.

[BJ.]

London Welsh's appeal is scheduled for 21 June. Best of luck to them.

Read all about it!

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

The powers that be were never going to allow Newcastle, one of only two northern clubs still competing in the top division to go down and be replaced by another London club that was going to turn itself into a quasi franchise just to get a 'suitable' ground and become like another Wasps, London Irish, Saracens type entity. Do we really want another one of those?

I would like to see minimum capacity limits abolished. If a ground is good enough to win the championship in then it is good enough for the premiership.
what is the point in having a 10,000 capacity if your regular attendance is around 5-7000 like a third of the current Premiership sides?

I think the PGB fail some of these criteria themselves:

4.4 "provide the Club and the PGB with freedom to schedule fixtures on dates and times that are of benefit to the Premiership competition"

Friday night games and Sunday games at midday are not a benefit to the Premiership competition and actually devalue it.

"The security and controlled stadia organisation allows the PGB to manage its
own fixture list to the benefit of the competition as a whole"

The manner in which the fixtures are moved around does not benefit the competition at all.

How many clubs have terracing? Apparently this is a requirement:

"Each Club’s Principal Home Ground, Standby Ground or
Temporary Ground must provide a minimum Total Licensed
Capacity of 10,000. This must be comprised of seated and
terraced standing areas."

I'm not sure we pass this one:

"A Public Address (PA) system must be provided and be audible
in all parts of the ground"

[tigerburnie]

Primacy of tenure,means that when Sky want to change the kick off time for televising the match.The club has to be able to respond,LW do not have this seemingly,so the money talks and they don't get to play in the premiership.
Now how Sale have been getting away with the friday nights only at home fails me.It does seem that there's a rule for some and not for others.

[BJ.]

London Welsh's appeal has been put back from tomorrow (Thu 21 Jun) to Thu 28 Jun.

Read all about it!

[GS]

Just a point about the primacy question, if Sky demand that we change a kick off what happens if it clashes with a City home game? Sure, Tigers can play at any time as they own the ground, but in practice agreements have to be made between us, City and the police so, technically, we can't just go ahead and play at any time. Does this mean Tigers couldn't get promoted?

[mol2]

Ultimately if the policing authority decide otherwise it matters not a job what time SKY, ESPN or any other TV company want the match. Sure the likes of Tigers & City (& most other sports teams) dance to the tune of TV but ultimately the Primacy of tenure arguament ceases to be an issue if the police won't permit two events to occur concurrently. Thus primacy of tenure is rendered almost irrelevant for some clubs - like Tigers because their stadium is near a major soccer ground.
Add to that some existing clubs share grounds.

Thus to exclude London Welsh would be unjust.

Without promotion we'd have no Worcester & no Exeter in the league. Who could argue that either of these is less deserving of a place in the Premiership than Newcastle. (I would argue all but 4 of the premiership are less deserving of that place than Exeter)

[BJ.]

Ultimately if the policing authority decide otherwise it matters not a jot what time SKY, ESPN or any other TV company want the match. Sure the likes of Tigers & City (& most other sports teams) dance to the tune of TV but ultimately the Primacy of tenure arguament ceases to be an issue if the police won't permit two events to occur concurrently.

Except, of course, for the 10/11 season when the TV channels decided to move the final round of fixtures in the football championship forward 24 hours to Sat 7 May which meant Leicester City kicked off at home to Watford 2¼ hours before the Tigers ran out at Welford Road against London Irish.

[Cardiff Tig]

Ultimately if the policing authority decide otherwise it matters not a job what time SKY, ESPN or any other TV company want the match. Sure the likes of Tigers & City (& most other sports teams) dance to the tune of TV but ultimately the Primacy of tenure arguament ceases to be an issue if the police won't permit two events to occur concurrently. Thus primacy of tenure is rendered almost irrelevant for some clubs - like Tigers because their stadium is near a major soccer ground.
Add to that some existing clubs share grounds.

Thus to exclude London Welsh would be unjust.

Without promotion we'd have no Worcester & no Exeter in the league. Who could argue that either of these is less deserving of a place in the Premiership than Newcastle. (I would argue all but 4 of the premiership are less deserving of that place than Exeter)

The problem is its perfectly acceptable for an organisation to change the entry criteria without forcing the current members to have to change to meet those new criteria. I can't see how London Welsh will be able to argue against it - there only chance is the RFU hearing because if that fails a legal challenge will most likely fail. Add to that the fact that they entered into the championship season knowing the entry criteria and they really don't have a leg to stand on.

I agree that they should be allowed in though!