Welsh win appeal?

[CitizenSmiff]

Now how Sale have been getting away with the friday nights only at home fails me.It does seem that there's a rule for some and not for others.

That was what struck me when I read about why the Exiles weren't allowed to use the Kassam stadium; if one team with a small following can occupy a football ground and only play on Fridays why can't another? It'd mean more awful Friday night games under lights in half-empty stadiums but that's better than a deserving team being unjustifiably kept down by bureaucracy and the machinations of the broadcasting companies.

[RobGale]

Ultimately if the policing authority decide otherwise it matters not a job what time SKY, ESPN or any other TV company want the match. Sure the likes of Tigers & City (& most other sports teams) dance to the tune of TV but ultimately the Primacy of tenure arguament ceases to be an issue if the police won't permit two events to occur concurrently. Thus primacy of tenure is rendered almost irrelevant for some clubs - like Tigers because their stadium is near a major soccer ground.
Add to that some existing clubs share grounds.

Thus to exclude London Welsh would be unjust.

Without promotion we'd have no Worcester & no Exeter in the league. Who could argue that either of these is less deserving of a place in the Premiership than Newcastle. (I would argue all but 4 of the premiership are less deserving of that place than Exeter)

The problem is its perfectly acceptable for an organisation to change the entry criteria without forcing the current members to have to change to meet those new criteria. I can't see how London Welsh will be able to argue against it - there only chance is the RFU hearing because if that fails a legal challenge will most likely fail. Add to that the fact that they entered into the championship season knowing the entry criteria and they really don't have a leg to stand on.

I agree that they should be allowed in though!

The thing I wonder about is the following situation (that could very easily have happened this year)

- A team with no primacy of tenure is relegated from the Premiership
- A team that passes all the rules wins the championship
- The following season the team with no primacy of tenure wins the championship

Will that team be allowed back in? Surely if they exclude London Welsh then a teams like Sale and Wasps really are treading a fine line as they have both flirted with relegation over the last few years as the PRL/RFU wouldn't be able to allow them back in whilst refusing London Welsh without being sued to high hell

(on a different note hello to a fellow tiger in Cardiff! )

[Jay C]

The thing I wonder about is the following situation (that could very easily have happened this year)

- A team with no primacy of tenure is relegated from the Premiership
- A team that passes all the rules wins the championship
- The following season the team with no primacy of tenure wins the championship

Will that team be allowed back in? Surely if they exclude London Welsh then a teams like Sale and Wasps really are treading a fine line as they have both flirted with relegation over the last few years as the PRL/RFU wouldn't be able to allow them back in whilst refusing London Welsh without being sued to high hell

I believe (and someone may be able to correct me if I am wrong) that the original clubs that signed the PRL agreement are all 'exempt' from their own rules inthat they can be promoted without fulfilling the criteria. I also believe this is because they undertook (when signing the agreement) to comply with their own rules - within an unspecified time frame.....

Very elitist and wrong IMO, but difficult to change things now

[RobGale]

The thing I wonder about is the following situation (that could very easily have happened this year)

- A team with no primacy of tenure is relegated from the Premiership
- A team that passes all the rules wins the championship
- The following season the team with no primacy of tenure wins the championship

Will that team be allowed back in? Surely if they exclude London Welsh then a teams like Sale and Wasps really are treading a fine line as they have both flirted with relegation over the last few years as the PRL/RFU wouldn't be able to allow them back in whilst refusing London Welsh without being sued to high hell

I believe (and someone may be able to correct me if I am wrong) that the original clubs that signed the PRL agreement are all 'exempt' from their own rules inthat they can be promoted without fulfilling the criteria. I also believe this is because they undertook (when signing the agreement) to comply with their own rules - within an unspecified time frame.....

Very elitist and wrong IMO, but difficult to change things now

Surely that can't be enforceable in a court of law!?!?!?!

[Cardiff Tig]

on a different note hello to a fellow tiger in Cardiff!

Hello!

[h's dad]

The thing I wonder about is the following situation (that could very easily have happened this year)

- A team with no primacy of tenure is relegated from the Premiership
- A team that passes all the rules wins the championship
- The following season the team with no primacy of tenure wins the championship

Will that team be allowed back in? Surely if they exclude London Welsh then a teams like Sale and Wasps really are treading a fine line as they have both flirted with relegation over the last few years as the PRL/RFU wouldn't be able to allow them back in whilst refusing London Welsh without being sued to high hell

I believe (and someone may be able to correct me if I am wrong) that the original clubs that signed the PRL agreement are all 'exempt' from their own rules inthat they can be promoted without fulfilling the criteria. I also believe this is because they undertook (when signing the agreement) to comply with their own rules - within an unspecified time frame.....

Very elitist and wrong IMO, but difficult to change things now

Surely that can't be enforceable in a court of law!?!?!?!

Why not? Founders rights is a pretty standard clause.

It may be discriminatory but I don't see that it is legally so. I think arguing racial discrimination over the "Welsh" may be pushing it a bit

[Bill W (2)]

I fear London Welsh are clutching at legal straws which whilst they will earn the QC's involved a lot of money will achieve little else.

[jgriffin]

I fear London Welsh are clutching at legal straws which whilst they will earn the QC's involved a lot of money will achieve little else.

It is absolutely clear that Newcastle will remain in the AP now and that the AP is becoming effectively 99% ringfenced.However the LW application has nowhere near the merit of the Chiefs for example.
Does this mean that no club could make it into the AP without a multimillionaire backer?

Is the main problem the weakness of the Championship as a competition in terms of public profile and revenues?

[Kinoulton]

This mess is so far removed from rugby that I'm really losing all heart.

If you want to go the football "money is all" route then fine. I'm enjoying watching a superb Euro 2012 and seeing a team of mostly honest England journeymen battling towards respectability.

Come autumn, I should return to the noble game of rugby. But I'm not sure. It's becoming a self-protective club and those that support London Welsh and those of their ilk can do nothing about it.

Football is positively democratic by comparison.

[Bill W (2)]

It's becoming a self-protective club and those that support London Welsh and those of their ilk can do nothing about it.

.

How is it "becoming"? The rules for promotion to the Premiership have not changed since Rugby went professional. All London Welsh and those of their ilk have to do is satisfy the advertised criteria.

[Kinoulton]

Yes but it's flying in the face of sensible commercial practice.

If you or I tendered for a large contract then we would need to submit detailed plans as to how we would "tool up" for the job should we be award the contract. But we wouldn't be asked to tool up in advance.

Asking 2nd tier clubs to have in place Premier standard facilities before they actually get there goes against financial prudence.

[Bill W (2)]

Yes but it's flying in the face of sensible commercial practice.

If you or I tendered for a large contract then we would need to submit detailed plans as to how we would "tool up" for the job should we be award the contract. But we wouldn't be asked to tool up in advance.

Asking 2nd tier clubs to have in place Premier standard facilities before they actually get there goes against financial prudence.

Actually not so. For many such contracts you do indeed have to demonstrate that you already have the facilities and capacity to deliver.

And to be fair, the ability of those who place such contracts to judge whether the ambitious "nowt to everything" plans are realistic, like those of PRL/RFU to judge on clubs ambitions is pretty poor. Saffercens? Rugby? And if you want to do round ball Rangers?

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Ultimately if the policing authority decide otherwise it matters not a job what time SKY, ESPN or any other TV company want the match. Sure the likes of Tigers & City (& most other sports teams) dance to the tune of TV but ultimately the Primacy of tenure arguament ceases to be an issue if the police won't permit two events to occur concurrently. Thus primacy of tenure is rendered almost irrelevant for some clubs - like Tigers because their stadium is near a major soccer ground.
Add to that some existing clubs share grounds.

Thus to exclude London Welsh would be unjust.

Without promotion we'd have no Worcester & no Exeter in the league. Who could argue that either of these is less deserving of a place in the Premiership than Newcastle. (I would argue all but 4 of the premiership are less deserving of that place than Exeter)

The problem is its perfectly acceptable for an organisation to change the entry criteria without forcing the current members to have to change to meet those new criteria. I can't see how London Welsh will be able to argue against it - there only chance is the RFU hearing because if that fails a legal challenge will most likely fail. Add to that the fact that they entered into the championship season knowing the entry criteria and they really don't have a leg to stand on.

I agree that they should be allowed in though!

it's not jus the entry criteria though, the teams currently in the Prem are ringfenced from ever having to meet the criteria I believe - so if someone like London Irish were to go down they could bounce straight back up again without having to jump through all these hoops, that is the unfair part

[hooking_king]

Kieran Brookes has tweeted that there are rumours London Welsh have won their appeal? Any news in the forum world?

[chris4xy]

The London Welsh website says that they don't expect to hear anything until about 5.00 pm today