Matthew Tait and his injury

[Dr H Flashman MBE]

I was wondering with the signings of Cornwall and Bowden, where Tait is going to fit into the squad? I am hoping to see the best of him this season. He has talent, clearly just needs more luck with injuries. Just wondered also if anyone knows if he will be back for pre season or fit for the start of the season?

[kingol22]

The signings of Cornwall and Bowden have no bearing on Tait. Tait is a back 3 player the other 2 are centers/10s.

[DickyP]

The signings of Cornwall and Bowden have no bearing on Tait. Tait is a back 3 player the other 2 are centers/10s.

Not really true - he hasn't often played at Full back (where he's far to small and not a consistent enough tackler) and regularly plays/ed at outside centre including the 2007 RWC Final! However, I do think you are right about where he probably should play!

If he's to play at full back it needs to be when others like Niall Morris and Scott Hamilton are on the field to give size balance to the back three.

[bwightman]

I think that the midfield picks itself next year: Youngs, Flood, Allen, Tuilagi.

What O'Connor and Cockers do with the back three is anyone's guess. Hamilton back into contention? Murphy to retain 15 for the entire season? Morris to get another shot? Where do the three newbies fit in? I'd like to see Benjamin get a run and I've long been a fan of Thompstone, but Goneva is the proven finisher of the three.

Alex (though non-existant in the final) is going to be very, very, VERY difficult to replace. The same can be said of Agulla.

Our backs' play is going to have to change dramatically now that we don't have two battering rams coming in off the wings.

Oh, hang on - this is a thread about Tait. Hmmm...not sure he fits in at all now. Maybe if he'd have been selectable for more than 45 minutes this season he'd be in contention, but I'm inclined to start aligning myself with good ol' Mum's view that he's just going to take up space in the wage cap for three seasons before being released.

[PM76]

I think that the midfield picks itself next year: Youngs, Flood, Allen, Tuilagi.

What O'Connor and Cockers do with the back three is anyone's guess. Hamilton back into contention? Murphy to retain 15 for the entire season? Morris to get another shot? Where do the three newbies fit in? I'd like to see Benjamin get a run and I've long been a fan of Thompstone, but Goneva is the proven finisher of the three.

Alex (though non-existant in the final) is going to be very, very, VERY difficult to replace. The same can be said of Agulla.

Our backs' play is going to have to change dramatically now that we don't have two battering rams coming in off the wings.


Oh, hang on - this is a thread about Tait. Hmmm...not sure he fits in at all now. Maybe if he'd have been selectable for more than 45 minutes this season he'd be in contention, but I'm inclined to start aligning myself with good ol' Mum's view that he's just going to take up space in the wage cap for three seasons before being released.

Agree RE: the midfield and half-backs although by Christmas I suspect Ford will be pushing Flood for the 10 shirt after. Tigers need to make sure Ford gets enough game-time to make him stay at the club in the long term as he's only on a one year deal. I don't know whether rotation would work at 10, in the way it does with Cole/ Castro. I do hope to see more rotation next season though, keeping key players rested would help before big games in Europe IMO.

As the for the back 3 I think Smurph will start and end the season as an automatic choice at full-back. Benjamin is probably also a guaranteed starter on the wing and I wouldn't be suprised if he was pushing on the England door at some point in the future.

As for the other wing it's between Goneva, Thompstone, Morris, Hamilton and Tait IMO. I'd be tempted to start the season with Morris on the wing with Goneva off the bench as Morris impressed whenever he played last year. I'd also like to see Morris have a go at full-back. I'd like to think Scott could regain his form, although he played better towards the end of the season he hasn't looked the same player for about 15 months now. Thompstone is a battering ram type of winger but it's asking a lot for him to replace Alex while I think I've seen that Goneva is pretty small, in terms of height at least.

If Tait is fit then he could really challenge for one of the places and I agree with Cockers that he will be a good player if he gets the oppurtunity and the club signed him and therefore have a duty of responsibility towards him. Recurring injuries have not kept him out, it has been a series of different injuries, which gives me hope that he can come back to be the player he was. I thought when he signed he was on a much reduced wage so I don't buy the notion of him taking up the salary cap.

[DickyP]

I know this thread is ostensibly about Matt Tait but it really consists of generalised discussion of the backs that really just says that he's got a lot of competition and he will have to do something pretty special to get to be a regular: which is, of course, exactly as it should be.

I think he'll find it pretty hard except as a winger - even there he's competing against some big names. With AA and Bowden to contest 12, Manu or Matt Smith at 13 ably backed by Forsyth (who also has been unfortunate with injury), Geordie at 15 covered ably by Hamilton and Morris the centres and full back are pretty well covered. His chance, if it comes will be during the internationals.

Actually I think 12 will be even more of a contest as I expect RC to try to get both Ford and Flood on the pitch. GF is a far more complete player than Flood but doesn't have that incision to break the line in the opponents 22 that Floody has, nor is he as good a tackler. If Flood starts to appear at 12 expect AA to be contesting 13 and Bowden to be contesting 15.

[bc]

Has Benjamin actually been confirmed as a Tiger next season?

[kingol22]

The signings of Cornwall and Bowden have no bearing on Tait. Tait is a back 3 player the other 2 are centers/10s.

Not really true - he hasn't often played at Full back (where he's far to small and not a consistent enough tackler) and regularly plays/ed at outside centre including the 2007 RWC Final! However, I do think you are right about where he probably should play!

I do not think his size is a problem for full back, Geordan is hardly big. If his tackling is strong enough, which it should be, full back could be his best position.

for next season I would have a back line of
Youngs, Flood, Tait, Allen, Tuilagi, Benjamin, Murphy. With Tait replacing Geordan in the long term.

[DickyP]

I do not think his size is a problem for full back, Geordan is hardly big.

I didn't mean too small interms of bulk - he's no longer the size he was when he was dumped by Orange Gav - but that he's a little bit too short which is not a problem Geordan has. Admittedly Jason Robinson was even smaller size but he could (to quote a description I once read of Barry John) do other things like walk on water, not to mention he had sufficient bulk and catching skills for the high ball support from Ben Cohen and Josh Lewsey.

If his tackling is strong enough, which it should be, full back could be his best position.

I know it should be but it isn't and never has been yet - always been a very weak point.

I'd see Niall Morris as a better long term bet for full back.

All in all my position is that he (Tait) is a good player but will have to prove himself - really hope he does but am a bit fearful that he won't. He hasn't got to be just good but be clearly better than those around him, especially those already in the team - just think how long it took Horacio to make to to being a regular and Lucas Amorosino never did.

[Crumblies]

I can't believe what I'm reading on here.

Mathew Tait and his injury, where will he fit in etc, etc.

I dont like to mention facts but:

1.this guy played full back in a RWC final. He scored a try and on the day he was the outstanding English player on the pitch.

2. By common common consensus he is the greatest unfulfilled talent in English Rugby.

3. He can virtually play anywhere from 12 - 15, though I personally feel 15 is his best position now. And potentially I see him as better than Foden, Brown and Goode.

So if he can get fit and stay fit, and if he can get the kind of form of which he is capable, and if the Coaches and Tigers adopt a game suited to his talents then IMHO this guy is as good as anyone we have ever had, and that includes Geordan Murphy and I do not use that comparison lightly.

I know there are an awful lot of if's above. But these were the reasons we took the massive gamble to sign him and that is why Tigers continue to give him every possible chance to recover from his injuries.

If he does then it will not be a case of where he fits in, he will be a 'shoein'

[Isambard]

Class is permanent. Journeymen recruited will always be so. That woefully challenged size monkey who recently retired after scoring 67 tries for Wales is evidence that size is not everything.

100 caps for too small Martin Williams is another relevant eg.

I hope that Matthew Tait is fit to play next season and look forward to seeing him in the Tigers' first choice 22.

[Jay C]

1.this guy played full back in a RWC final. He scored a try and on the day he was the outstanding English player on the pitch.

2. By common consensus he is the greatest unfulfilled talent in English Rugby.

3. He can virtually play anywhere from 12 - 15, though I personally feel 15 is his best position now. And potentially I see him as better than Foden, Brown and Goode.

4. So if he can get fit and stay fit, and if he can get the kind of form of which he is capable, and if the Coaches and Tigers adopt a game suited to his talents then IMHO this guy is as good as anyone we have ever had, and that includes Geordan Murphy and I do not use that comparison lightly.

1. I think that is incorrect - he played 13 and England did not score a try in the final (the score was 6-15)?

2,3 & 4. That's opinion - not fact - and a LOT of ifs!

IMO Smurph IS a legend, but the jury is still out on Tait. Yes, he has time on his side, but its 5 years since the RWC final of 2007 and he has hardly played much international rugby since...

So (again IMO) he still has to prove himself to make it into the Tigers 23 on a regular basis - firstly by getting fit and then by proving he is better than the other members of the squad - virtually all of whom are currently ahead of him in the pecking order (IMO).

Personally, I cannot see him having an impact here, although this season is his best shot as I think the second wing berth is up for grabs (with Smurph & Benjamin being nailed on to start the big games)

[Crumblies]

Clearly my powers of recall are not what they were, on checking back the try that wasn't was in fact almost the try of the tournament and he didn't play full back he did indeed play centre, so oops apologies.

Lets hope my assessment of a good player is somewhat better than my memory and more importantly let all hope Mathew Tait has the chance to prove it.

[tigerburnie]

I hope Tait has an injury free season,it would be nice to see what he has to offer for Tigers.We will need all our players on top form if we are to mount a better campaign on three fronts next season.

[bwightman]

I can't believe what I'm reading on here.

Mathew Tait and his injury, where will he fit in etc, etc.

I dont like to mention facts but:

1.this guy played full back in a RWC final. He scored a try and on the day he was the outstanding English player on the pitch.

2. By common common consensus he is the greatest unfulfilled talent in English Rugby.

3. He can virtually play anywhere from 12 - 15, though I personally feel 15 is his best position now. And potentially I see him as better than Foden, Brown and Goode.

So if he can get fit and stay fit, and if he can get the kind of form of which he is capable, and if the Coaches and Tigers adopt a game suited to his talents then IMHO this guy is as good as anyone we have ever had, and that includes Geordan Murphy and I do not use that comparison lightly.

I know there are an awful lot of if's above. But these were the reasons we took the massive gamble to sign him and that is why Tigers continue to give him every possible chance to recover from his injuries.

If he does then it will not be a case of where he fits in, he will be a 'shoein'

You're talking about the Mathew Tait of 2007 here. The Mathew Tait of 2008-12 has played about 20 games and has hobbled off injured in about 25% of those.

He has/had vast potential, but the fact that he seems to be made out of glass has to count against him now. We've seen nothing special from him since that RWC07 final. He's more than welcome to try and make a come back, but I'm not holding my breath for anything incredible.