HC Cup next season

[Nailsworthstiger]

Just looking at the list of clubs in each of the tiers for next season HC. I think that an "easy" route through a group would be Cardiff, Tigers, Connacht and Treviso.

Worse case - Leinster, Tigers, Ospreys and Racing Metro or Montpellier.

Not sure why Saints get a Tier 1 spot though!

[Bill W (2)]

All we have to do in any event is win every game.

This may mean having a Plan A and a Plan B and intelligent use of subs.

Coaches please note.

We have the squad to do it.

Do we have the will?

[Pete]

Quote: I think that an "easy" route through a group would be Cardiff, Tigers, Connacht and Treviso.

If we were fortunate to draw Cardiff's group, we would then have either Glasgow or Connacht plus a French club from Tier 4. This would be good. All groups will contain a French team, and one will have two.

[Smurphswillgetya]

At least we avoid Clermont, Ulster, Toulon and Quins. I think the Tier 2 looks strong with possibly Munster, Saints and Cardiff the weaker of the Tier 1 teams.
If we win all our games the it wont matter diddly squat who we get. Personally I would love to have Leinster in our group.

[Crumblies]

Preferred options:

Cardiff or Biarritz
Glasgow or Connacht
Treviso or Montpellier

[bluntiger]

It shows what a joke the HC qualification rules are that one of the Tier 4 teams is 'Italian club (to be confirmed)'!

When clubs like Bath, Gloucester, London Irish, Wasps, Stade, Perpignon, Brive don't qualify, how can it be right that an Italian club get qualification just for being ..... well, Italian!

[biffer]

It shows what a joke the HC qualification rules are that one of the Tier 4 teams is 'Italian club (to be confirmed)'!

When clubs like Bath, Gloucester, London Irish, Wasps, Stade, Perpignon, Brive don't qualify, how can it be right that an Italian club get qualification just for being ..... well, Italian!

Because it's a European competition. It's not about bringing all of the best sides in Europe together, it's about bringing the best sides from each country together.

[DickyP]

It shows what a joke the HC qualification rules are that one of the Tier 4 teams is 'Italian club (to be confirmed)'!

When clubs like Bath, Gloucester, London Irish, Wasps, Stade, Perpignon, Brive don't qualify, how can it be right that an Italian club get qualification just for being ..... well, Italian!

Because it's a European competition. It's not about bringing all of the best sides in Europe together, it's about bringing the best sides from each country together.

That might have made sense when each country had a domestic competition, but not when 50% of the contestants only play other games as practice for the European competition.

[bluntiger]

It's not about bringing all of the best sides in Europe together, it's about bringing the best sides from each country together.

In your opinion maybe, but then why arn't there any Romanian, Russian, Spanish, Portugese or Hungarian teams in the competition?

I think it SHOULD be about bringing the best sides in Europe together in the HC. After all, the second tier cup (The Amlin cup) should include sides from each country.

[Bill W (2)]

I think it SHOULD be about bringing the best sides in Europe together in the HC. After all, the second tier cup (The Amlin cup) should include sides from each country.

You might think that. But some countries do not have sufficient professional sides to allow it (as currently constituted). Presumabaly this is why the French and English Clubs have suggested chabge (see other thread.

[boon]

.

Not sure why Saints get a Tier 1 spot though!

simples,really.

its because we (saints) have outperformed tigers and every other english club in european competition over the last four years,as per the erc system.

with the vagaries of the tier system though, you can still find yourselves in a proverbial group of death so being tier 1 is not necessarily / automatically much of an advantage.

[Smurphswillgetya]

.

Not sure why Saints get a Tier 1 spot though!

simples,really.

its because we (saints) have outperformed tigers and every other english club in european competition over the last four years,as per the erc system.

Typical poor deluded Saints fan. It's because of the ridiculous system which gives more points to a team that wins the 2nd Tier Amlin cup than teams that consistently do well in the English league and automatically qualify for the premier competition year in year out. Look at Quins, one quarter final and winning the Amlin puts them in Tier 2. It took Saints a 100 years to win one major trophy and it probably will be another hundred before they win anything meaningful again.

[boon]

not sure that you are typical,smurphs, as i wouldnt like to make such a sweeping generalisation about another teams fanbase.

think you are deluded though.

you might not like the credit saints get for winning the ecc, but thems the rules, laid out in advance so get over it.

but even if we are charitable and set that year aside (it will be discounted by this time next year, after all):

09/10 - saints are the only english side to get out of the group stage.
10/11 - saints lose to leinster in the final, so by definition went further than any other english side. indeed we left tigers behind two rounds before when you lost in the quarters.(there are more points in the ranking system for reaching a final than dropping out at the quarters)

11/12 - meh, sarries make it past us in getting out of the groups.

so for 2 of the last 3 years saints have demonstrably and quantifiably done better than tigers in europe. not sure where delusion comes in.

even in the longer term its 12 years since saints won the hc, 10 since tigers did, not a major difference on that scale.

saints have earned that tier 1 ranking (as i say elsewhere it remains to be seen how much of an advantage it is!)

& am willing to bet say £25 to the matt hampson fund here and now that saints will match or surpass the round tigers reach in europe next season. you in?

[Crumblies]

not sure that you are typical,smurphs, as i wouldnt like to make such a sweeping generalisation about another teams fanbase.

think you are deluded though.

you might not like the credit saints get for winning the ecc, but thems the rules, laid out in advance so get over it.

but even if we are charitable and set that year aside (it will be discounted by this time next year, after all):

09/10 - saints are the only english side to get out of the group stage.
10/11 - saints lose to leinster in the final, so by definition went further than any other english side. indeed we left tigers behind two rounds before when you lost in the quarters.(there are more points in the ranking system for reaching a final than dropping out at the quarters)

11/12 - meh, sarries make it past us in getting out of the groups.

so for 2 of the last 3 years saints have demonstrably and quantifiably done better than tigers in europe. not sure where delusion comes in.

even in the longer term its 12 years since saints won the hc, 10 since tigers did, not a major difference on that scale.

saints have earned that tier 1 ranking (as i say elsewhere it remains to be seen how much of an advantage it is!)

& am willing to bet say £25 to the matt hampson fund here and now that saints will match or surpass the round tigers reach in europe next season. you in?

Good post. Boon you'll have to forgive Smurphs factual analysis and sound logical reasoning never seems to figure very high in his arguments, I keep trying to tell him.

Anyway as its for Hambo with regard to your bet I'm in. However the bet is conditional, it can only be claimed by: if we go out before you then you need to come onto this forum to remind me, or If you go out before us then I will go onto the Saints forum to remind you. And if we both go out at the same stage then both of us contribute £25. Are you in?

[boon]

crumblies, thats fine by me. the bet is on, on your terms.

financial prudence means i must limit my liabilities though, so this is the only bet i am entering into (ie - not having the same bet with a dozen other tigers fans!)