New Law interpretation.

[Bill W (2)]

The scrummy is only allowed 5 seconds to shift the ball from the base of a ruck - even when it is in front of the rearmost foot.

Do we agree with this?

[sapajo]

Sounds eminently sensible but I wonder just how will the 5 seconds be metered?

[Darc Tiger]

Guess it will end up being like the 'use it' rule for mauls? Can't really see the harm.

[TigerAlex]

I like the sentiment, but I worry about it practically. Referees and their assistants are already struggling to keep an eye on enough without having to countdown 5 seconds every time there's a ruck, which they might not even get to. How can they make a judgement about whether the ball is or has been trapped when they are metres away?

I would have no problem with a 'use it' system, as per the maul. I just worry that this is going to be too much for the referees to be watching.

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

I like it although I would give five seconds and then the ref says 'play' at which point anyone can approach the ball from any side.

[tigerfeet13]

It should see the end of the caterpiller.

Full breakdown on law ammendments.

The five Law amendments to be trialled globally are:

1. Law 16.7 (Ruck): The ball has to be used within five seconds of it being made available at the back of a ruck with a warning from the referee to “use it”. Sanction – Scrum.

2. 19.2 (b) (Quick Throw-In) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field of play between the line of touch and the player’s goal line.

3. 19.4 (who throws in) When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line; or a scrum at the place of the knock-on. The non-offending team may exercise this option by taking a quick throw-in.

4. 21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements: Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout, they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

5. A conversion kick must be completed within one minute 30 seconds from the time that a try has been awarded.

In addition to the global trials, the IRB Council approved three specific additional trials:

1. A trial to extend the jurisdiction of the TMO to incidents within the field of play that have led to the scoring of a try and foul play in the field of play to take place at an appropriate elite competition in order that a protocol can be developed for the November 2012 Tests.

2. A trial has been sanctioned for the November 2012 Test window permitting international teams to nominate up to eight replacements in the match day squad for Test matches. In line with current practice at domestic elite Rugby level, the additional player must be a qualified front row player.

Plus a 7's variation

From http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/ ... law+trials

[kingol22]

Agree with most of the amendments accept number 3 and 1.
1. refs should be told to tell players to play the ball if they are taking to long but 5 seconds is a very short space of time. If a team has just covered back and are on there own line with the ball and the majority of their players are offside they should be aloud time to reorganise as long as they can keep possession.
3. The current law works just fine and this will just allow teams to avoid a set piece they are weaker in.

[tigerfeet13]

Alternatively 3 could also allow a side to turn the screw.

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

1. Law 16.7 (Ruck): The ball has to be used within five seconds of it being made available at the back of a ruck with a warning from the referee to “use it”. Sanction – Scrum.

I agree with this one but I think the referee should say 'play' and should allow the other team to play the ball at this point from any side of the ruck as long as the player is on his feet

2. 19.2 (b) (Quick Throw-In) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field of play between the line of touch and the player’s goal line.

Don't agree with this. Quick throw ins should be banned. What is wrong with a lineout?

3. 19.4 (who throws in) When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line; or a scrum at the place of the knock-on. The non-offending team may exercise this option by taking a quick throw-in.

Agree apart from the quick throw in. See above 19.2

4. 21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements: Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout, they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

Sensible

5. A conversion kick must be completed within one minute 30 seconds from the time that a try has been awarded.

Not really bothered about this one

In addition to the global trials, the IRB Council approved three specific additional trials:

1. A trial to extend the jurisdiction of the TMO to incidents within the field of play that have led to the scoring of a try and foul play in the field of play to take place at an appropriate elite competition in order that a protocol can be developed for the November 2012 Tests.

Should have been the case when TMOs were introduced in the first place.

2. A trial has been sanctioned for the November 2012 Test window permitting international teams to nominate up to eight replacements in the match day squad for Test matches. In line with current practice at domestic elite Rugby level, the additional player must be a qualified front row player.

Good idea.

[DickyP]

The 5 second rule is OK when you realize that it is 5 seconds from being told to "use it".

The problem will be with the referee - I don't agree that it's "one more thing", after all he's already monitoring if it's out at the back of the scrum and now he's just monitoring if it's playable instead. And that's the problem - if he thinks it's playable and it isn't.

However, yet again, a law change designed in theory to speed up the game in reality will slow it down as the sanction is a SCRUM: ideally the ref should just be able to say the ball is now playable by anyone and let the opposition play the ball.

[JWM]

It should see the end of the caterpiller.

Full breakdown on law ammendments.

The five Law amendments to be trialled globally are:

1. Law 16.7 (Ruck): The ball has to be used within five seconds of it being made available at the back of a ruck with a warning from the referee to “use it”. Sanction – Scrum.

This does not mean that there is just 5 seconds to play the ball after it gets to the back of the Ruck. What it does is to add the Maul-style "use it" to the Ruck. This call of "use it" by the Ref is what will prevent the caterpillar, or indeed sitting-on-the-ball time-wasting. Once "use it" is called, the five seconds then determines whether the ball has indeed been so used. GOOD.

2. 19.2 (b) (Quick Throw-In) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field of play between the line of touch and the player’s goal line.

Currently the quick throw-in is pretty rare. This Rule slightly widens the physical window for the player to throw it in. The effect, IMHO, of this small change is to slightly increse the number of occasions when a quick throw-in is actually taken, maintaining a flowing, running game. GOOD.


3. 19.4 (who throws in) When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line; or a scrum at the place of the knock-on. The non-offending team may exercise this option by taking a quick throw-in.

Broadening options to a choice from a knock-on into touch to either a Throw-in where the ball goes out or a Scrum back, is a GOOD idea.

The addition of a quick throw-in option would seem to be for completeness and consistency with other circumstances for a quick throw-in. In reality, this is a negligible difference since it is hard to imagine many occasions when a quick throw would be taken in such circumstances - i.e. it'll have to be knocked-on a heck of a way upfield into clear space for a non-offending play to risk a quick throw!

4. 21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements: Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout, they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

Self-evident. GOOD

5. A conversion kick must be completed within one minute 30 seconds from the time that a try has been awarded.

GOOD. But doesn't go far enough. Should also apply to penalty kicks at goal, 1min 30secs from kick at goal choice being nominated. (If you don't think 1min 30secs is quite a long time, try holding your breath for that long... And on Saturday, Owen Farrell's most drawn out kick was completed in 1min 5secs.)

In addition to the global trials, the IRB Council approved three specific additional trials:

1. A trial to extend the jurisdiction of the TMO to incidents within the field of play that have led to the scoring of a try and foul play in the field of play to take place at an appropriate elite competition in order that a protocol can be developed for the November 2012 Tests.

At face value, seems a sensible use of technology. However, will this add to already-interminable TMO decisions, or a further increase in Refs' increasing reluctance to come to a decision themselves?

2. A trial has been sanctioned for the November 2012 Test window permitting international teams to nominate up to eight replacements in the match day squad for Test matches. In line with current practice at domestic elite Rugby level, the additional player must be a qualified front row player.

Unlike Saturday, when appropriately-qualified John Smit was allowed to remain on the bench and the having-come-off Matt Stevens go back on, will the compulsory 8th sub (front row) be required to be used before one who's come off can go back on?

Plus a 7's variation

From http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/ ... law+trials

[mightymouse]

The 5 second law will stop the end of a game being wound down

often the most exciting part of the game is the last play when the team behind on the scoreboard tries to throw everything in to win. However if the tem in the lead has possesion the clock is wound down whilst the scrum half divs about at the back of a ruck. Now the ref can say play and we may get an oppotunity for one final exciting play - It's a good plan

mnost of the others are also - especially the 8 subs for tests which is long overdue

[mol2]

I'd reduce the kick time to 45 seconds and include penalties as well as the proposed conversions.

Clearly there will be the ref may be allowed to extend that by calling "time off" where injuries or other matters may delay the kick.

A minute and a half of kicker going through some irrelevant :censored: wiggling preparation & tossing grass in the air a la Robin Hood is not entertainment.

[Kinoulton]

In the air of actors who have played Robin Hood, surely?

The real Robin Hood would have just nailed the b*gger with an arrow without p***ing about chucking grass around!



But on topic I feel that refs need to ref and not be dictated to my men in suits. They need to get together and ask themselves: "We are in charge of games for which the working classes have paid good money to see. They do not want to see static rucks, static scrums, re-set scrums,flop-ons, balls not being used etc."

Let them sort it and not some fat bloke who hasn't touched a ball in 10 years.

[jgriffin]

I'm all for the Gopperth/Dupuy amendment on kicks - put it down, line it up, kick it. Clock stopped would be my preference anyway.
Wilko started all this Yoga malarkey, we now even have orbital gymnastics (Myler & Farrell), what price holding a gurning competition during the 90 seconds for a kick?