Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

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Crivvens
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Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Crivvens » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:40 pm

Heard from a very reliable source this afternoon that Saracens have gone over the limit of the salary cap and that the RFU are aware if it, threatened Sarries with legal action (or whatever action it is that they can use against them) and Sarries have called their bluff and basically said "Ok, sue us".

The RFU are apparently reluctant to go down the court case avenue.

Be interesting to see what happens next, or indeed if anything is said in the media about it.

That's all I know, so if you have any questions I'm afraid I can't tell you any more than what's already been written.

Seems it could be a case of 'watch this space'
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by daktari » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:55 pm

I've suspected for ages that everyone knows who is doing what but no-one will rock the boat.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by kornboy130 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:19 am

The NRL took an extremely hard line stance with this and the Melbourne Storm. Stripped them of titles and docked points. It's very easy to ensure that kind of punishment is put in place - "legal action" is very vague though - is it the RFU of PRL who should enforce these? I don;t know enough to detail it but that is an extraordinary stance to take and really poor form from Saracens if true.

For those interested:

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-league/l ... -td91.html

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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by drc_007 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:49 am

The details of the sanctions are here

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport ... -1-3672261

The regulations mean a club is fined £3 for every £1 it is over the cap and since 2009/10 clubs can be points deducted as well, with a sliding scale going up to 20.

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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by bwightman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:13 am

I'd be very careful about us giving this story too much air. Sounds a bit too much like throwing stones in glass houses. Can you really be sure that we're legally under the salary cap with a squad the size of ours?

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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:48 am

Surely if the RFU/PRL don't do anything then they leave it wide open for any team that gets relegated or doesn't make it into the HC places to kick up a big. There must be an argument that Sarries (or any other team) wouldn't have the league position they have now if they had been within the cap, and that if they hadn't cheated then they could have been relegated/not got HC qualification etc. If I was Newcastle chairman then I would make a fuss seeing as they are being relegated (possibly!) only because another team(s) cheated!

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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by daktari » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:08 am

bwightman wrote:I'd be very careful about us giving this story too much air. Sounds a bit too much like throwing stones in glass houses. Can you really be sure that we're legally under the salary cap with a squad the size of ours?
You can't but as a PLC, is a tad more tricky to hide it.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:42 am

daktari wrote:
bwightman wrote:I'd be very careful about us giving this story too much air. Sounds a bit too much like throwing stones in glass houses. Can you really be sure that we're legally under the salary cap with a squad the size of ours?
You can't but as a PLC, is a tad more tricky to hide it.
From the Northampton chronicle article:

“When you look at a squad on any given day it is a snapshot. You have got to look at where the players are in the life of their contract. Have they just renewed? Or are they at the end of a three-year deal which was an absolute winner for the club because they got him out of the Championship. Or he has come from a lesser union? Those kind of things.

“They might want to go there for career progression, get closer to England recognition, or win trophies. You have to look at why they did it.

“Plus, there are some very good negotiators in the league who do deals for contracts. People think if they have done well they must be earning loads, but it is not always the case.”



I wouldn't have thought we need to worry.

Some of our 'star' players this year are covered by some of these situations - Castro, Kitchener, Mafi, Mulipola, Twelvetrees (who is leaving because we can't afford him), Waldrom, etc.

Incoming players like Bowden and Benjamin are also explainable on this basis.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:46 am

If its true and they are in breach of the salary cap, then its hardly a shock. They cant be paying all the ex pat SAs peanuts. This is their pension pot. And not sure of the spelling but our old Fly half from about 3 seasons ago, SA, great kicker, Derrek Houggard (or somthing like that) we lost him because we couldnt afford his wages within the cap. Naughty if they have done this and as the last poster said, if i was Newcastle Chairman and they got relegated, i would want answers and would be tearing up trees to get them from the RFU and PL.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by tigerburnie » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:04 am

Maybe all the clubs should be PLC's and more transparent then,if that makes it more difficult to hide things.We don't want to go back to the old days of "boot money",where players found bundles of cash in their boots after a bath or shower.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by mightymouse » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:08 pm

I would be disappointed if they lost points ... I want the opportunity of watching us beating them in the semi final

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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Tigerbeat » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm

daktari wrote:
bwightman wrote:I'd be very careful about us giving this story too much air. Sounds a bit too much like throwing stones in glass houses. Can you really be sure that we're legally under the salary cap with a squad the size of ours?
You can't but as a PLC, is a tad more tricky to hide it.
Leicester Tigers are heavily and regularly auditted so it would be very difficult to hide any details.

Tigers do not pay players the highest wages........just ask Billy Twelvetrees.
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by Daveyboy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm

Dr H Flashman MBE wrote: ...... our old Fly half from about 3 seasons ago, SA, great kicker, Derrek Houggard (or somthing like that) we lost him because we couldnt afford his wages within the cap.
Of course, we remember which club he left us for. :smt047
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by jgriffin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:46 pm

Strettle wanted 200K, and we wouldn't go past 100K? Tigers are pretty stingy relatively and yet struggle to stay under the cap, even with injury dispensation. Exeter have a job also, and I suspect almost every club in the AP - but Saffacens?
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Re: Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

Post by bluntiger » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:18 pm

If nothing is done, then the salary cap has all but gone.

The maths simply don't add up at Saracens. Before SAIL's involvement, Sarries lost between £1.5 - £2.0M each year and they would have been spending somewhere close to the salary cap. That shot up to first a £4.2M loss and then a £6.7M loss and possily an >£8M loss for the last financial year (results not yet posted).


Ignoring the Wembley games for a moment, income has been about the same, so the only valid reason for the increaed losses is expenses. In other words, with little else having changed (still renting VR, same training facilities etc), salaries. They probably have a larger coaching and conditioning staff but the majority of the losses have to be increasing player salaries. Even if you put £1M of the increased losses towards the Wembley games and increased coaching staff, it still doesn't account for the £4-5M increased losses.

And let's face it the likes of Brits, Smit, Strettle, Wrigglesworth, Borthwick, Berger, Joubert, Barritt, Brown, Tompkins, Hougaard, Stevens, Hodgeson and co. are not going to sign below market rate for established internationals.
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