mightymouse wrote: However on the hand in mouth thing and Ferris bleating about ( I was watching this match last night as it happens) and they kept going on about it. and little Nigel got very pompous about it all.
Perhaps what Hartly should have done as soon as he heard all the bleating was go up to the ref and show him his mouth and say
"please sir can you have a word with their team because someone is gouging the face area - I have just nearly had my mouth ripped open by a dirty great filthy hand in it and it felt like someone was trying to rip my teeth out - it fact they feel damaged and may need remedial dental work - this is not the kind of thing I expect to happen to me when I come on a rugby field so can you have a word or i'll be talking to the police after the game."
It is similar to this whole question of holding off the ball and then bleating when you get thumped. the instigator of the action keeps getting away with it - it is not on - Years ago if someone did something to you - you or your team took retribution - equally you expected retribution (ie. lie on the ball and you expected a shoeing - i have the scars to prove it) now that is outlawed they have to get cuter on the initial action, whatever it is.
This raises and interesting point on citings. Did England ask the citing official to look at the events leading up to the biting for a possible citing of Ferris? If not why not? And should, following a citing, the accused have the opportunity to cross cite?
I am fairly sure that Wiggy said he has the potential to be a future England captain, and is held in high regard by his peers.
No mention was made of the south African tour.
mightymouse wrote:I am no fan of Hartly - I think he is a prat of the highest order and wasting what could be a reasonable talent.
What on earth are you basing that on?
The man's a 40-cap international in his mid-20s, has been his club captain for a couple of seasons and is in line for England captaincy at some point. How in the name of all things ineffable can you suggest he's wasting his talent?
If he'd carried on the way he did 5-6 years ago, when he was a hot-headed and unreliable player, then you might have a point. But instead of wasting his talent, he's clearly a reformed character and has moved ever onwards in terms of career, achievements and responsibility.
Pretty much the exact opposite of "wasting talent".
mightymouse wrote:I am no fan of Hartly - I think he is a prat of the highest order and wasting what could be a reasonable talent.
What on earth are you basing that on?
The man's a 40-cap international in his mid-20s, has been his club captain for a couple of seasons and is in line for England captaincy at some point. How in the name of all things ineffable can you suggest he's wasting his talent?
If he'd carried on the way he did 5-6 years ago, when he was a hot-headed and unreliable player, then you might have a point. But instead of wasting his talent, he's clearly a reformed character and has moved ever onwards in terms of career, achievements and responsibility.
Pretty much the exact opposite of "wasting talent".
Totally agree with you 4071. Everyone's tastes in hookers differs and whilst Hartley is not my type of hooker the comments by the poster are unfounded or perhaps they are based on just a hatred of Saints!
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.
4071 wrote:If he'd carried on the way he did 5-6 years ago, when he was a hot-headed and unreliable player, then you might have a point. But instead of wasting his talent, he's clearly a reformed character and has moved ever onwards in terms of career, achievements and responsibility.
could argue given his current ban that he's not all that reformed
personally I think he's a good player - he just needs to sort out his scrummaging
I certainly think the responsibility at Saints has helped him develop and has cooled his temperament a lot
graham roundtree has recomended that hartley will be the next captain of england . for the tour of south africa. am i dreaming or what 
