BBC Report on Saints
Barwell's father, Keith, invested £1m into Saints at the time (1995), representing two thirds of the club's ownership, with the 500,000 shares constituting the remaining third.
"The club at that point was owned by amateurs," Barwell Jr added. "There were 2,000 members and at the time they converted their value in the club to shares.
"So they had 500,000 shares and there was investment from other sources, not least my father, in order for the Saints to turn professional and pay the players.
"They now feel the time is right for them to dissolve the original members' club and sell the shareholding of 500,000 shares.
"It is a sign of their great loyalty and support to donate that money back to the club to assist with the redevelopment of the ground. We have got a special set-up at Northampton."
Many long term season ticket holders at Tigers did the same (15 years ago)... and even bought some extra shares. To call on that money seems to me to be a bit unreasonable... I trust Tigers don't have similar plans.
Will we be asked to give our shares back
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Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
I'm clearly living up to my forum name today... 
Why would the shareholders agree to this?? I sincerely hope that they get first refusal to buy their shares back, and that the shares don't get dished out to private investors. They couldn't do too much damage with only a third of the club, but it's a first step down a risky path.
Why would the shareholders agree to this?? I sincerely hope that they get first refusal to buy their shares back, and that the shares don't get dished out to private investors. They couldn't do too much damage with only a third of the club, but it's a first step down a risky path.
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tigerburnie
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Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
I think we are in a different place as we have the ground and room to expand,stains are not in that position and I believe that the local council won't let them expand to increase their gate money.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
I would agree with rdracup. Seems like a bunch of nuts to me.
If you buy shares in something you own a bit of it until it goes bust. And until that point you (a) have voting rights in proportion to your shareholding (normally) and (b) will only dispense of your shares when someone makes an offer you wish to accept.
Otherwise, politely tell them to stick it up their aristotle.
If you buy shares in something you own a bit of it until it goes bust. And until that point you (a) have voting rights in proportion to your shareholding (normally) and (b) will only dispense of your shares when someone makes an offer you wish to accept.
Otherwise, politely tell them to stick it up their aristotle.
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
Absolutely agree with Kinoulton. I find it difficult to comprehend how ALL original shareholders at Saints have "given" there shares back so a third party can "sell" them on, or "acquire" their value. As a Tigers shareholder, I recall being allocated some shares originally as a member, but buying additional shares in addition to support the club. In all the subsequent years to date there has never been a dividend paid, nor have I expected one, and apart from an initial offer of a 20% discount at the shop in the first year, there has been no advantage to being a shareholder whatsoever. But I'm :censored: if I'm simply going to hand my shares over to anyone.
....I'll get my coat.
Ian.
....I'll get my coat.
Ian.
Ian
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Bill W (2)
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Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
Sounds like Saints doing chinese balance sheet accounting to me.
Membership shareholding (like Tigers) can be diluted (as it has been) but only by agreement of the shareholders. Saints in a different position where the majority shareholding was in the hands of Barwell.
Membership shareholding (like Tigers) can be diluted (as it has been) but only by agreement of the shareholders. Saints in a different position where the majority shareholding was in the hands of Barwell.
Still keeping the faith!
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
The situation at Northampton is completely different to the situation at Tigers.
The Tigers shares are held individually by lots of different shareholders whereas the 500,000 Saints shares that the article talks about have been held in a trust on behalf of the club's entire membership.
Therefore no individual Saints fan was being asked to hand back their personal shareholding to the club. All 500,000 shares were controlled & managed by the trustees and were held in the name of the trust.
Following their return to the club, these shares are now going to be available for sale for individuals to purchase in the future.
Therefore nothing like the current situation at Tigers.
Also, it isn't any sort of dodgy balance sheet accounting either. It is completely open, honest & legal.
The Tigers shares are held individually by lots of different shareholders whereas the 500,000 Saints shares that the article talks about have been held in a trust on behalf of the club's entire membership.
Therefore no individual Saints fan was being asked to hand back their personal shareholding to the club. All 500,000 shares were controlled & managed by the trustees and were held in the name of the trust.
Following their return to the club, these shares are now going to be available for sale for individuals to purchase in the future.
Therefore nothing like the current situation at Tigers.
Also, it isn't any sort of dodgy balance sheet accounting either. It is completely open, honest & legal.
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
Not sure if I would be a happy Saints shareholder but at least it is much better than having shares in Rangers! What a scam that club has become.
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
What is wrong with what Saints are doing?!?
The club are doing little that Tigers haven't already done!
Tigers gave each member at the time of floatation a certain number of shares in the new plc but sold many more to anyone who wanted one, diluting the "ownership" of Tigers from 100% member-owned to one where former members owned only some of the shares in the company.
When they floated, Saints changed from a 100% member-owned club to one where only part of the club was retained by the members (as a collective body) but where no regular member owned any shares. The trust that administered the "member" shares are now opting to sell those shares to individual fans (thus changing their ownership model to one similar to Tigers) and giving te sale proceeds to the club.
When Tigers floated, the money from the original share sale went to the club not the members.
When Saints sell these trust shares the money will go to the club not the members. As there are very few "individual" Northampton Saints shareholders, I doubt any of them will be upset. If anything, this allows far more regular Saints fans to buy a piece their club as Tigers fans were able to do a decade and a half ago.
I fail to see how this is will anger any Saints members any more than Tigers member-shareholders will have been angered by the sale of millions of pounds worth of convertable preference shares a few years ago that significantly diluted the ownership of Leicester Football Club plc with little more than a passing comment!
The club are doing little that Tigers haven't already done!
Tigers gave each member at the time of floatation a certain number of shares in the new plc but sold many more to anyone who wanted one, diluting the "ownership" of Tigers from 100% member-owned to one where former members owned only some of the shares in the company.
When they floated, Saints changed from a 100% member-owned club to one where only part of the club was retained by the members (as a collective body) but where no regular member owned any shares. The trust that administered the "member" shares are now opting to sell those shares to individual fans (thus changing their ownership model to one similar to Tigers) and giving te sale proceeds to the club.
When Tigers floated, the money from the original share sale went to the club not the members.
When Saints sell these trust shares the money will go to the club not the members. As there are very few "individual" Northampton Saints shareholders, I doubt any of them will be upset. If anything, this allows far more regular Saints fans to buy a piece their club as Tigers fans were able to do a decade and a half ago.
I fail to see how this is will anger any Saints members any more than Tigers member-shareholders will have been angered by the sale of millions of pounds worth of convertable preference shares a few years ago that significantly diluted the ownership of Leicester Football Club plc with little more than a passing comment!
Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
lolSpecial
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tigerburnie
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Re: Will we be asked to give our shares back
That seems very well put and puts things into context.me2 wrote:What is wrong with what Saints are doing?!?
The club are doing little that Tigers haven't already done!
Tigers gave each member at the time of floatation a certain number of shares in the new plc but sold many more to anyone who wanted one, diluting the "ownership" of Tigers from 100% member-owned to one where former members owned only some of the shares in the company.
When they floated, Saints changed from a 100% member-owned club to one where only part of the club was retained by the members (as a collective body) but where no regular member owned any shares. The trust that administered the "member" shares are now opting to sell those shares to individual fans (thus changing their ownership model to one similar to Tigers) and giving te sale proceeds to the club.
When Tigers floated, the money from the original share sale went to the club not the members.
When Saints sell these trust shares the money will go to the club not the members. As there are very few "individual" Northampton Saints shareholders, I doubt any of them will be upset. If anything, this allows far more regular Saints fans to buy a piece their club as Tigers fans were able to do a decade and a half ago.
I fail to see how this is will anger any Saints members any more than Tigers member-shareholders will have been angered by the sale of millions of pounds worth of convertable preference shares a few years ago that significantly diluted the ownership of Leicester Football Club plc with little more than a passing comment!
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.