England vs Wales: 6 Nations

[Isambard]

21 to 19

[Will S]

I still worry about Farrell's ability to get the backline moving.

Found some stats in today's paper comparing OF and TF in the Prem since Aug 2010. Sort of backs up what we are all saying.

Farrell / Flood
Minutes Played 1,722 / 1,223
Defenders Beaten 3 / 17
Off-Loads 7 / 18
Clean Breaks 4 / 8
Total Carries 71 / 97
Total Metres 250 / 288

Despite Floody having played a lot less minutes than Owen his stats look a lot better. Take away Owen's place kicking and I really don't see too much else of international standard.

[Sherpa2]

But how many of Farrells minutes were at 10 as oppossed to 12?

I am not denying he lacks attacking flair, but we should be sure apples and being compared to apples.

[Isambard]

I read the article and thought that the Farrell stats were most convincing.

Does this just go to prove that there are lies, damn lies and statistics

[Stupid]

Does this just go to prove that there are lies, damn lies and statistics

Not unreasonable. I haven't read the article so don't know the context in which the stats were given - and that may be very reasonable. However, I do have serious questions about how applicable they are in the context of selection for the Wales game.

Crucially why use stats from August 2010? It means that the results will be very strongly influenced by last season, when Farrell was only just cementing his place as a first choice club player and Flood was (other than Alred messing about with his technique) having a fantastic season. Surely the crucial question is how are they doing now, and as I see it Farrell is that bit more mature than he was and Flood isn't having his best season (not unreasonably given injury and being messed about during the world cup). Maybe the stats wouldn't be that different, but without them being presented it's hard to comment. Regardless of what the stats say my view is that if Flood was in form his selection would be a no-brainer, as it stands it's not unreasonable to give Farrell jnr a run.

[Bertos]

Surely the crucial question is how are they doing now, and as I see it Farrell is that bit more mature than he was and Flood isn't having his best season (not unreasonably given injury and being messed about during the world cup). Maybe the stats wouldn't be that different, but without them being presented it's hard to comment. Regardless of what the stats say my view is that if Flood was in form his selection would be a no-brainer, as it stands it's not unreasonable to give Farrell jnr a run.

I agree and I think Farell is worth his place in the squad and probably the team due to the injuries we've had. He has done quite well since he has been in the team without showing much going forward and his place kicking is very good and his defence sound so I don't really have a problem with him as a stand in 10.

What really annoys me is how some sections of the media have decided he is the best thing since sliced bread (or Johnny's hay day) and are trying to make out he should be first name on the team sheet for the rest of his career. For example Paul Ackford (I know I shouldn't read him) has given him 8 out of 10 for both his 6N performances so far which is pathetic considering Barritt only got the ball three times in attack against Scotland.

In my view he has done quite well without any sign of flair but he would be on the bench at best when eveyone is fit. It's not him but those who want to christen him St Owen of Twickenham who get on my nerves.

[Stupid]

What really annoys me is how some sections of the media have decided he is the best thing since sliced bread (or Johnny's hay day)

Agree with that, as others have said already how about letting him be Owen Farrell?? If we want to know where he really stands compared to Wilkinson we need to wait until the summer tests in South Africa. If I've worked it out right he will be 4 months younger than Jonny was on the 2000 tour, and I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone of the performance he put in then!

[APM16]

As long as Flood's only on the bench because Lancaster's giving the men in possession the opportunity to prove themselves there's no problem - Toby Flood's England's best fly half (the less said about the Johnny Wilkinson debacle in the World Cup the better ) - enough said.

[Chobbsy]

[quote="tigerseb"]I was listening to 5 Live this morning and it sounds like Youngs/ Dowson are to be dropped for the Wales fixture.

Dickson & Morgan to be the only changes with Lawes, Flood & Tuilagi on the bench.

I would have brought all 3 of the above in... what do we think???[/quote]
They got that wrong didn't they?

[mol2]

No player has every attribute....Manu can't defend well, Ben can't box kick, Crofty avoids the dirty work...but it doesn't mean they aren't great players.

Well those who saw Manu last week against Sarries might beg to differ - clearly showed that his positional play had improved immensely and seemed to pop up everywhere in defense. And to be blunt he's never shirked a tackle!

I'd doubt many will intentionally run down his channel these days.

[Artuin]

Amen to that

[Jimmy Skitz]

No player has it all Jimmy. Wilko never developed a top class attacking game, and once his kicking went off kilt he became a liablity.
Look at some of our players. Toby's kicking is flaky, Manu's defence is still a long way from top class, Dan Cole needs to develop his work around the pitch, Ben cant box kick. But it doesnt mean they shouldnt play for England if they are the best available for the team.

As regards Farrell, the big attribute for me is his temperament, which cannot be coached. I mean what an embarassment for Hodgson with all his experience that he concedes kicking duties to a young guy like that, in his first matches, and in those conditions. And what credit to Farrell that he doesnt blink an eyelid at it.

If Toby had been playing in Murrayfield and Rome who would have kicked ? and if it was Toby would you have back him at 80% to win the games ???

I agree no player has it all and you have to allow for some development but the basis should be there already and the rest is just decision making and perfecting technique which is natural progression which comes with time & experience but if he doesn't have the basic skill level for the job then he shouldn't play, I mean any player btw not just Owen Farrell.

also the way Dickson is just standing around at the breakdown is getting on my nerves

[tigerburnie]

That was a good England performance against a lucky Welsh team.Not too much to correct to become a better team,Hartley was a liability and Ashton is looking lost,both should be on the bench next week.Stevens is a penalty machine,he just doesn't have the brain to play at this level,though his scrummaging seems to have improved.

[Old Hob]

That was a good England performance against a lucky Welsh team.Not too much to correct to become a better team,Hartley was a liability and Ashton is looking lost,both should be on the bench next week.Stevens is a penalty machine,he just doesn't have the brain to play at this level,though his scrummaging seems to have improved.

Agree with all this. Would add Croft good and mobile, Manu good, Cole OK, Flood OK, Youngs flaky AGAIN.

[Jimmy Skitz]

England just didn't seem to have the bench today, as soon as the replacements came on in the key positions we lost some thing, Youngs passes for example didn't seem to have the same zip on them ass Dickson's