none of the players you mentioned would, IMO, make it in to our fully fit starting backline.
Of course they wouldn't make it into Tigers line up, there is too much attacking potential. It's only hypothetical of course but whilst Flood and Co were busy trying to remember their training ground moves those lads would be thinking on their feet, IMO.
But why didnt one of them play at the last WC ? Or why are players like Sam, Tom and Dan not even picked at Saxon level ?
Tigers had backs playing for England, Ireland, Argentina and Samoa at the WC.
As will says..best we agree to disagree
So this cannot just be put down to a failure of Tigers coaches spot talent can it ?
Will S wrote:Bowden is more of a 12 than a 10. Flood and Ford are our first choice 10's but Bowden can step in to the fly half role if needed. Bowden and Allen will have a good scrap for the 12 shirt. This leaves us with two quality players for each position but with the ability to cover each other if required. Perfect!
And where does that leave Forsyth who played in the win against South Africa and at every age group for England. Surely next season he should be looking for first team rugby?
Will S wrote:Bowden is more of a 12 than a 10. Flood and Ford are our first choice 10's but Bowden can step in to the fly half role if needed. Bowden and Allen will have a good scrap for the 12 shirt. This leaves us with two quality players for each position but with the ability to cover each other if required. Perfect!
And where does that leave Forsyth who played in the win against South Africa and at every age group for England. Surely next season he should be looking for first team rugby?
I thought Forsyth played 13 in our win against SA and for England?
drc_007 wrote:And where does that leave Forsyth who played in the win against South Africa and at every age group for England. Surely next season he should be looking for first team rugby?
this cannot just be put down to a failure of Tigers coaches spot talent can it ?
No not at all! It's more a case of forward thinking and man management of players regarding the team and builing a solid base for future players to step into. Much the same as Ferguson has done at Manchester United over many years. A turnover of players that is too high will never build the foundations required to continue at the top level just as changing coaches will never allow them to finish the job they started but you can't allow players like Billy to continue to leave. Tigers must have seen something special in him to have taken him on so why let him go so easily. Now another player will probably arrive and need the time and opportunities to settle himself. It's a risky strategy and if we had the foresight to keep Vesty we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. We may have the same regrets about Billy in a couple of years?
drc_007 wrote:And where does that leave Forsyth who played in the win against South Africa and at every age group for England. Surely next season he should be looking for first team rugby?
Or for a move away from Tigers?
I guess my point is, there always seems to be a demand for bringing in new players rather than bringing on our own youngsters. I can see the argument for bringing in an international class player who would enhance the squad but do we want to bring in journeymen players unless there is a critical need in a particular position?
I know Billy is a work in progress but why can't we show some ambition?! I have always been keen to see 36 in action which is hardle the case with AA!! We really need a creative player at 12 - I just hope that they have someone lined up or am I naive?!!
Bundy wrote:I know Billy is a work in progress but why can't we show some ambition?! I have always been keen to see 36 in action which is hardle the case with AA!! We really need a creative player at 12 - I just hope that they have someone lined up or am I naive?!!
I am sure they will have contingency plans but until last Wednesday, they would have thought that 12T was staying since that is what he told them.
Signing Bowden will still give Ford and Forsyth plenty of oppurtunities. I can say with almost 100% certainty that Tigers will not be able to name the first choice backline next season, due international call ups and injuries. Therefore having 2 or 3 top players in every position is a necessity. Options of:
gives us lots of depth and quality. I think there will be a good scrap for the 12 shirt next year and when Flood is away with England there will be 2 recognised tens to compete for the place, the same goes for Manu and the 13 shirt.
The game against LI was Bowden's first for a month or two as well.
I guess Billy felt he had to go.
If you feel you are the best inside centre at your club and that is confirmed by picked for the England Saxons in that position, yet at club level your team mate is consistently picked ahead of you so you end up playing out of position or not getting picked sooner or later you have to say enough is enough.
Perhaps being slated in the defeat at Ulster when playing out of position was the final straw.
mol2 wrote:I guess Billy felt he had to go.
If you feel you are the best inside centre at your club and that is confirmed by picked for the England Saxons in that position, yet at club level your team mate is consistently picked ahead of you so you end up playing out of position or not getting picked sooner or later you have to say enough is enough.
Perhaps being slated in the defeat at Ulster when playing out of position was the final straw.
First of all you will find that last year AA was rated higher than Billy by England as he was on standby as cover for centre in preference to the Saxons pick.
In the Ulster game the whole team played badly and only some people on the forum 'slated' Billy. He did not come in for undue criticism and as Billy said himself the game highlighted weaknesses in himself he was not aware of. Perhaps the biggest criticism came from Billy himself.
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.
mol2 wrote: only some people on the forum 'slated' Billy. He did not come in for undue criticism and as Billy said himself the game highlighted weaknesses in himself he was not aware of. Perhaps the biggest criticism came from Billy himself.
If 12T is making decisions based on what a handful of anonymous posters say on a forum, he really needs to get some proper advice.....people don't really think repeatedly saying the same thing on a forum about anyone has any real affect do they??
The Peter's; "look poster XYZ has said we should sack Cockers 20 times, best be doing it then"
or
12T; " Poster ABC has slated me, that's it I'm off to Gloucester"
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