The Tigers conundrum!

[Roadsweeper]

I think we have a massive issue with the depth of our squad.

Management clearly have no confidence in the back up players in certain positions, e.g lack of a credible loosehead replacement, reluctance to bring on a replacement hooker, a real lack of faith in 12trees, no replacement for Murphy.

Part of that is salary cap and part is no using the development squad effectively. There seems to be some real deadwood in the development squad which we need to get rid of and bring in strong players to boost our overall strength.

Personally I would like to see us sign: Mullan, Paice, Waldouck, Vesty, to add depth and then a real potential star like Ben Morgan from Scarlets.

[Kinoulton]

I am a pragmatist.

I have watched several sports for several years and undestand that a team can somehow keep winning even though they are playing ugly and have problems to sort out.

I am told by my employer (who does this sort of thing) that I have a high IQ.

So I'm a reasonable fellow, and the next time someone uses that childish term "happy clapper" I'm going to find out where they live and put a horse's head in their bed.

[fleabane]

No credible loosehead replacement? Marcos and Stanko! Plus injuries - Brookes?

Agree about Chutes.

36 is too error prone at present, and expectations of him are too high. He will develop but is not the saviour many currently think him to be. We are missing Allen more than most would have realised.

Tait is a Smurf replacement, but injured.

The issue is not the cap, our bench is usually quite strong and compares to any Premiership club, it is the decision making on and off the field.

I would not sign any of your suggested players. None of them are first choice picks or have the potential to develop further, or are likely to have an immediate impact. I would sign new backs and defence coaches.

I also echo Kinny's sentiments.

[mol2]

Is Tait really a replacement for Murphy?
Given that over the past couple of years Bubbles has looked a better player than Geordan and what we've seen of Niall Morris this season would suggest he's better than either.

If neither of these has ousted a hopelessly out of form Murphy why do we think Tait will when he's fit.

The coaches have made a rod for their own backs in making Murphy captain (not an ideal role for a full back) and picking on the strength of how good he was in the past. They seem to have overlooked that his form had diminished before he broke his foot last season and not simply because he's not back to match fitness.
He's never been the same player since his long spell out with that shoulder injury - he's lost confidence under the high ball & he lacks the pace to do the things he tries. At his age that probably won't return.

[kend]

Interesting post, however I really agree with this:

Tigers completely dominate the English game, despite the salary cap levelling the playing field. They have topped the table in 8 of the last 13 years and been in the last 7 premiership finals. The only team to come close would be Wasps who had a purple patch..and look where they are now.

Any team can have a 1 or 2 season streak. Last year it looked like being Saints, this year it looks like being Quins.

It takes a really great club to stay right at the top for so long like Tigers over a 15 - 20 year period.

I think I would add that it takes a great team to survive the scale of disruption tigers have endured this season and yet still claw back into league contention.

IMHO there is a confidence issue in the team (why do high performance teams sometimes fail - perhaps Guy Noves will have a view after yesterday?!?). As for the coaching issue - none of us really have an insight into what is happening on the training field. My guess would be that things do generally work well there - but aren't translating into the matches consistently. Fear of failure perhaps? Performance anxiety? I felt Tigers got a bit lost on Saturday when things broke down - you need confidence to improvise?

[tig1]

I know the salary cap has a big say but, it can be done. Quins are showing the way forward they are flying even working well inside the cap. Its all down to passion confidence and some good coaching. They do not have the so called stars we watch week in weekout but thier style fits.

I think they have won the National league one and The Amlin trophy in the last decade.

I mean seriously...we are saying Tigers should look towards Quins as a guide ?

As the old saying goes, form is temporary and class is permanent.

[fleabane]

. . . . and complacency leads to decline?

[Roadsweeper]

I looking at players to strengthen the bench and maybe in Paice's case to replace Chuter.

No credible loosehead as a replacement on Saturday's bench as we had three tightheads in the squad. Therefore clearly the development team loosehead is not credible to even play 10 mins at the end of a game.

Look at the real contenders for Europe they all have very strong benches with multiple internationals who are fit and ready to go.

[tig1]

. . . . and complacency leads to decline?

Yes it does, but i dont see any ? Accept maybe amongst some supporters who take it as a given that the club will be successful every year.

[sapajo]

My beloved Tigers is currenmtly a team of dinosaurs caught in a rugby timewarp of yesteryear. Management remain intransigent and unable to instigate the revolutionary changes that are an essential prerequisite in order to now compete successfully at the top table in the modern rugby era. Until such times as the management recognise and accept this fact, our opponents will continue to leave us trailing in their wake as they have already evolved and adapted their style of play. We are no longer a great team to be feared or revered we are however a good team that urgently needs to undergo a revolution to restore us back to where we belong at the top table of european rugby. I fear that instead we will lamentably continue to wither on the vine.

[iceman_19]

Most posters on this forum seem to subscribe to one of two viewpoints:
1 Tigers are malfunctioning and there are several very questionable practices going on...poor backs coaching, poor tactics and so on
2 Tigers are winning matches and the doubters are being shown the door

The conundrum is easily solved:
Tigers have a highly talented squad with many top class players. A lot of sides would love to have home-grown or discovered talent like Tigers. There is a terrific 'dog' to the side that rattles even world-class sides. Tigers are winning important games.
BUT
Tigers should be a world-class side dominating the domestic game and shaking the boots of the Leinsters and Toulouses with their all-court Northern Hemisphere style. Yet they can't even challenge for restarts, garryowens and sometimes rucks. They are one-dimensional and largely predictable.They try to play fancy when direct is the way (as in the second half on Saturday when attacking around the breakdown brought rewards). They seem to lose their way for at least 20 mins a match if not more.

So both viewpoints are correct, really a matter of focus. Neither view (happy clappers vs nay sayers)will concede that the other is also correct!
But it keeps us happy..............

Well put Mr G ....you know my view points and I often get slated for airing them. It seems the happy brigade have their heads in the sand and hope all this dire/woeful performance week on week will disappear.

Excellent summary jGriffin. WiggoTiger, how can you agree with the post and then do exactly what has been pointed out as being the problem?!

[hww27]

Paice? You are 'avin' a giraffe!
Hawkins, TY if he recovers and Jimmy Stevens before Paice. Seriously overblown PR.

Ah, the hooker debate. A subject very close to my heart!

Firstly, dont like the use of the word IF. Youngsy will recover... prefer to use the word WHEN.

And I'm sorry but come on. Jimmy Stevens before someone like Paice??? Surely you cant be serious here??!!

[tig1]

My beloved Tigers is currenmtly a team of dinosaurs caught in a rugby timewarp of yesteryear. Management remain intransigent and unable to instigate the revolutionary changes that are an essential prerequisite in order to now compete successfully at the top table in the modern rugby era. Until such times as the management recognise and accept this fact, our opponents will continue to leave us trailing in their wake as they have already evolved and adapted their style of play. We are no longer a great team to be feared or revered we are however a good team that urgently needs to undergo a revolution to restore us back to where we belong at the top table of european rugby. I fear that instead we will lamentably continue to wither on the vine.

I can only imagine the uproar in the Clermont papers. '2010 French Champions lose 19 - 23 to outdated team of dinosaurs'. Zut Alors.