Is Toby Flood actually any good?

[biffer]

This might upset people but I don't think he's much more than average. He's mae to look good by the players around him, both for Leicester and for England. Most of the time the rest of the back line of the opposition doesn't match up man to man against his team, so he doesn't have his weaknesses exposed. When all of a sudden a team can match up along the rest of the backline, they can go after him and he can't cope with the pressure.

Be honest. would any of you pay to see a back line in which he was the numder one, the one who was tructed to come up with the skill to beat the opposition, the go to guy? Because I wouldn't, purely because I don't believe he's capable of leading a line in that way.

:duckandcover:

[rocktop51]

What has prompted this comment. Provocative it may - ill informed it may be. Do I agree? then no I don't - you havent given any reason to your comment - if you expand I may understand what You are trying to say

[biffer]

I've been thinking it for a while to be honest. Anytime a good French or Irish team goes after him, or any time France NZ ro SA go after him at internaionat level, he doesn't stand up to it and has a poor game. Some poor games and some good games in that situation would be fine, but he's poor every time a team feels able to put pressure on.

The evidence is pretty clear. he doesn't make the breaks, he's never the focus of any opposition defence, so he's obviously not what anyone else sees as the threat. Even when put in that position (when the opposing defence is concentrating on other threats) he rarely manages to be the outstanding attacker from our back line.

When was the last time he was our main attacking threat?

I'm looking forward to three years time when Ford takes over and Flood is brought on in the last ten minutes to kick for touch.

[tigerburnie]

Not seen todays game,but on the rest of his time with us it prompts me to ask,does biffer know what he's talking about?

[biffer]

Not seen todays game,but on the rest of his time with us it prompts me to ask,does biffer know what he's talking about?

Which games did he win, against top quality opposition, using his hands not his boots?

[tigerburnie]

Biffer,it's a team game,I don't think any individual has ever won a game for anyone.The odd foolish or rash sending off has maybe cost a game,but I can't remember Floody ever doing that.

[Purebob]

Flood is an exceptional fly half. When he is behind an advancing pack and supported by predatory centres he is quite brilliant. However what really sets him apart is that even when things aren't idea he STILL plays flat and tries to create. With our centres largely clueless today Floody STILL tried to create and move the ball.

Not perfect at all, but there are few tens in England I'd swap him for.

Good game examples: Saints in the Semi last season. Bath last season at the rec.

[biffer]

Biffer,it's a team game,I don't think any individual has ever won a game for anyone.The odd foolish or rash sending off has maybe cost a game,but I can't remember Floody ever doing that.

Of course it's a team game, but I can remember games where I think Manu / Castro / Stankovich / Waldrom / Murphy / Alex / etc was outstanding and his effort made the difference. Can't think of one game where it was Flood. I think we'd be much the same with any stand off in the premiership, and he's only in the England team because he plays for the best team in England.

[WhitecapTiger]

The evidence is pretty clear. he doesn't make the breaks,

Made decent breaks for England in last years 6N to put Ashton over the goal line

he's never the focus of any opposition defence, so he's obviously not what anyone else sees as the threat.

So Hartley and Northampton didn't try their hardest to do a (dirty) number on him in last years Prem Semi final then?

Even when put in that position (when the opposing defence is concentrating on other threats) he rarely manages to be the outstanding attacker from our back line.

Do you mean he doesn't run 80 metres to score a try? Maybe not, but I've seen him put our centres/wingers away to do similar, and plenty of supply and offloads out of the tackle so our 'outstanding attackers' can finish a move off and score

When was the last time he was our main attacking threat?

He looked pretty handy in 2nd half last Friday against Sale IMO, by his own admission he was poor in first half. Obviously this is opinion only

I'm looking forward to three years time when Ford takes over and Flood is brought on in the last ten minutes to kick for touch.

For real? methinks your a WUM mate

[biffer]

Flood is an exceptional fly half. When he is behind an advancing pack and supported by predatory centres he is quite brilliant. However what really sets him apart is that even when things aren't idea he STILL plays flat and tries to create. With our centres largely clueless today Floody STILL tried to create and move the ball.

Not perfect at all, but there are few tens in England I'd swap him for.

Good game examples: Saints in the Semi last season. Bath last season at the rec.

Exceptional is pushing it. It's not hard to be good when you have an advancing pack and predatory centres, tyht's kind of the point. How good would he be for a side which is struggling? We're struggling at the moment and he wasn't good today - if he'd kicked his goals we would have won that game.

The fact that there are few tens in England you'd swap him for demonstrates how poor the tens in England are at the moment.

Saints in the semi last year? He moved the ball sideways and we made no ground. Repeatedly.

[Purebob]

Opinions vary biffer.

[biffer]

Opinions vary biffer.

They do indeed, thankyou for allowing me to have mine.

[biffer]

The evidence is pretty clear. he doesn't make the breaks,

Made decent breaks for England in last years 6N to put Ashton over the goal line

he's never the focus of any opposition defence, so he's obviously not what anyone else sees as the threat.

So Hartley and Northampton didn't try their hardest to do a (dirty) number on him in last years Prem Semi final then?

Even when put in that position (when the opposing defence is concentrating on other threats) he rarely manages to be the outstanding attacker from our back line.

Do you mean he doesn't run 80 metres to score a try? Maybe not, but I've seen him put our centres/wingers away to do similar, and plenty of supply and offloads out of the tackle so our 'outstanding attackers' can finish a move off and score

When was the last time he was our main attacking threat?

He looked pretty handy in 2nd half last Friday against Sale IMO, by his own admission he was poor in first half. Obviously this is opinion only

I'm looking forward to three years time when Ford takes over and Flood is brought on in the last ten minutes to kick for touch.

For real? methinks your a WUM mate

Woohoo big breaks against Italy. I did say GOOD teams. The fact that Hartley takes a cheap shot at you doesn't mean you're any good, it just means hartley is an idiot. I wouldn't trust his judgement on which way an apple will fall if I drop it.

My point is he's not much better than average for the premiership and in our team pretty much any other ten in the league would look pretty much as good, if not better.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Is Toby Flood actually any good?
Yes, not at fault today, its the gameplan amongst other issues that is the cause of today, it would help if he had a 12 at 12, nothing against Smith as I think he is a quality Club Player that we need in our sqaud (the bloke would play prop if asked!) but 12 is not his postion, any of the other injured Centres would make a better 12.

[WhitecapTiger]

Woohoo big breaks against Italy. I did say GOOD teams. The fact that Hartley takes a cheap shot at you doesn't mean you're any good, it just means hartley is an idiot. I wouldn't trust his judgement on which way an apple will fall if I drop it.

My point is he's not much better than average for the premiership and in our team pretty much any other ten in the league would look pretty much as good, if not better.

I was actually talking more about the breaks against Wales in Cardiff, you know the ones which set up a fairly decent win against pretty much the same welsh team that performed so well at the RWC, not Italy, good enough?

It wasn't just Hartley, the other players tried too, not just the one late hit from Hartley.