Cockers & Oconnor behaviour

[tig1]

I find it really odd that people would feel Ackford has either mis-reported or sensationalised the situation with Cockerill and O'Connor.

It is a very extreme piece of wording, and is completely libellous if not true.
In which case Cockerill, O'Connor and the club should sue him for defamation and/or as a minimum have theTelegraph print an immediate retraction.

I think the chances of that happening are.....0%.

Ackford has written the article because he feels that abuse of the officials is an attack on the integrity of the game of rugby, in which you accept the referees decision and get on with the game.

I agree with him. Stamp it out. The game is going down the football route with this kind of behaviour.

[fleabane]

From where I was standing I could see RC and MoC ranting. I can therefore assume that the 3 newspapers I have read so for are correct in that words were said. It is not acceptable that coaches abuse officials, as it is not acceptable on the pitch. Our coaches have form. "Provocation", ineffective reffing, are not excuses. The Peters must bite the bullet and take action.

We all criticise the RFU and ERC for their weak approach to discipline, and although it might hurt us, Tigers should be the first to react to this behaviour.

We could lose our Director of Rugby, Chief Coach, 13 and 10 to citings after this match, with none of them able to participate in the final.

What price success?

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

I agree that at no point should a representative of the club use abusive language towards officials.

However just to stamp this out and punish the individual is simply not enough and is missing the point.

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. When referees are as poor as Barnes was today and the referee in the London Irish game then are we surprised by the response from Cockerill?

There needs to be a proper review of referees performances which is then available to the public, this review should include input from former players, referees, the RFU and the coaches of the two clubs involved.

Referees should be graded for each game that they play and this should be published in a league structure with the referee that is top at the end of the season being awarded the final.

[Bill W (2)]

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. .

The problem is not confined to England and the RFU.

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. .

The problem is not confined to England and the RFU.

Agreed but the solution needs to start somewhere and why not in England?

[Bill W (2)]

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. .

The problem is not confined to England and the RFU.

Agreed but the solution needs to start somewhere and why not in England?

Why not indeed.

Although the RFU's collective mind does appear to be on other things at the moment.

[tig1]

I agree that at no point should a representative of the club use abusive language towards officials.

However just to stamp this out and punish the individual is simply not enough and is missing the point.

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. When referees are as poor as Barnes was today and the referee in the London Irish game then are we surprised by the response from Cockerill?

There needs to be a proper review of referees performances which is then available to the public, this review should include input from former players, referees, the RFU and the coaches of the two clubs involved.

Referees should be graded for each game that they play and this should be published in a league structure with the referee that is top at the end of the season being awarded the final.

Your post makes no sense. You say that no representative of the club should use foul language towards an official. But then you go on to say that we shouldnt be surprised at cockerills response because of the standard of the refereeing.

What Richard Cockerill chooses to let come out of his mouth is his choice and his control. He doesnt get a free pass to use foul language and abuse an official just because he doesnt agree with a referees performace.

Probably the game does need to deal with the issue of refeering.

But separately it needs to deal with yobs. The 2 issues are not linked.

[G.K]

I disagree. I had my son and his mate in the Crumbie near the coaches last season and I was embarrassed at Richard's mouth and aggression.

I wonder what he would do if I was to spout off the foul language and belligerent stance in view of his kids ?

If he and O'Connor can't control themselves they need locking in a bunker during the game. It is not OK and it is not rugby.

I agree and I'm glad I wasn't in the Crumblie as I would certainly not be happy to pay money to listen to foul language from coaches, players or fans.

If the latest allegations are substantiated then I hope he/they gets severely reeled in by the Board. Or do they in turn condone such behavior?

[gracioussaintsfan]

'soccer fans watching Rugby' reputation

Well after thirty years of being a Tigers fan that's the first time I ever heard that !

You haven't been listening then, Bob.

Sorry was that supposed to be a complement??

If want to take it as a complement, you go ahead.

[paula123]

I disagree. I had my son and his mate in the Crumbie near the coaches last season and I was embarrassed at Richard's mouth and aggression.

I wonder what he would do if I was to spout off the foul language and belligerent stance in view of his kids ?

If he and O'Connor can't control themselves they need locking in a bunker during the game. It is not OK and it is not rugby.

I agree and I'm glad I wasn't in the Crumblie as I would certainly not be happy to pay money to listen to foul language from coaches, players or fans.

If the latest allegations are substantiated then I hope he/they gets severely reeled in by the Board. Or do they in turn condone such behavior?

Can anyone actually tell me what Cockers/Oconnor actually said??

I hear what you are saying but have the facts been released??

If they have then i will comment.

[mightymouse]

As a very vocal member of the middle of the Crumbie terrace I am still reeling from the "Revelling in soccer fans supporting rugby.. in the crumbie terrace" remark

If being very vocal both individually and collectively is being like a "soccer fan" - then I will have to own up. I however have never seen any violent or intimidatory behaviour on the terrace and away fans are always welcomed - I have even brought some of them with me in the past. Maybe the more gentille elements of Saints fans think that chanting Tigers Tigers very loudly is "soccer like" whilst singing away in jolly fashion to "when the saints" is not! - I do not know it is all very baffling.

regarding the 2 incidents most talked about in the press and media -

Firstly Cockerill was very incensensed by the refereeeing last week and told them so after the game on the field - he oviously sees injustice and wants it dealing with - His complaints are justified - the coming in at the side and the general standard of refereeing at the breakdown is woeful but worse still it is inconsistant - we will not get peace until this issue is dealt with - his second complaint was about the late tackling and again he was right - there was a deliberate and sustained attack early in the game to intimidate Flood and it was not dealt with by Barnes - I believe this is what led to the boiling over later. Very poor officiating, failing to contrl the "temperature" of the game.

Interestingly as we are talking about bad language from coaches - when we pointed out his tactics to Grayson in their dugout and told him to keep his pet thug under control (Hartley) he turned round and called me an exceptionally rude word begining with W. Would I complain about an incident like that? No !
I was annoyed with them at the time and he was annoyed with me - so what ?
It is a brutal contact sport and yesterday was one of the most brutal and best I have seen for a long time .. I am sure Paul Grayson is a very nice chap and he got a bit over excited - big deal - But if Paul Ackford wants to write about something of that nature let him write about that. It sounds like he is offended very easily but then he was a policeman once upon a time which perhaps explains it.

Regarding Manu - Yes there was some big punches thrown and he probably deserved a red but I have seen worse and given the previous intimidation that was a starting ploy by saints and a the prior petulant shove on the head and neck by Ashton then he should not be wholly suprised by the response. One thing is certain, Ashton will not try that sort of nonsense on Manu again - indeed I would be suprised if anyone did.

What of course all this fuss takes away from and why the likes of Ackford, Barnes and co. and their sickening continuing Anti Leicester bias does not recognise was that was one hell of a game of rugby. Both teams fought like giants out there and whilst on paper Saints are probably the better team - on the day on that field in front of that crowd Tigers drove themselves further and harder and on the day eclipsed Saints with pure will. Anyone who cannot see that and and does not want to write about that knows nothing about what this sport is all about!

[TigerAlex]

I don't have any particular problem with shouting about a referee's bad decision during the game. We all do it and I think if you care about your team, it would take inhuman self-restraint not to criticise some decisions during a high-tension match. However, I do have a problem with two aspects of this story (if they're true). I do not feel especially comfortable with the idea Cockerill and O'Connor swearing within earshot of supporters. I suspect it would put many parents off taking their kids to the rugby if they thought they'd be exposed to bad language. I am no child and I would not like to hear bad language constantly throughout the game. Yes, Welford Road is a big stadium, but if the choice being near the dugout or not going, people may choose not to go. This should concern everyone.

Second, if it is true that Cockerill and O'Connor have been abusing the match officials, I will be very embarrassed and ashamed of them. There may well be serious problems with the officiating, but intimidation is not an appropriate response. I also believe it to be counterproductive. My team's coach used to swear an awful lot at the referee from the touchline when we played and I really think that the referee's treatment of us subsequently became much worse. Afterall, having people swearing at you is hardly going to endear them or their team to you. If you must complain about a referee's performance, do it formally and in the cold light of day. I sincerely hope that I never hear of any incidents like this from anyone associated with Tigers again.

[yellow_balaclava_hunter]

I agree that at no point should a representative of the club use abusive language towards officials.

However just to stamp this out and punish the individual is simply not enough and is missing the point.

There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. When referees are as poor as Barnes was today and the referee in the London Irish game then are we surprised by the response from Cockerill?

There needs to be a proper review of referees performances which is then available to the public, this review should include input from former players, referees, the RFU and the coaches of the two clubs involved.

Referees should be graded for each game that they play and this should be published in a league structure with the referee that is top at the end of the season being awarded the final.

Your post makes no sense. You say that no representative of the club should use foul language towards an official. But then you go on to say that we shouldnt be surprised at cockerills response because of the standard of the refereeing.

What Richard Cockerill chooses to let come out of his mouth is his choice and his control. He doesnt get a free pass to use foul language and abuse an official just because he doesnt agree with a referees performace.

Probably the game does need to deal with the issue of refeering.

But separately it needs to deal with yobs. The 2 issues are not linked.

You clearly do not understand human behaviour.

What people should do and what they end up doing aren't always the same. We are not robots.

The two issues are linked and both need to be addressed as both should not be happening.

There is no 'probably' about it. The behaviour of Cockerill was provoked by the indefensibly poor refereeing that we've had for some time now.

It is clear that this has boiled over for some time and Cockerill has lost his patience with it. He should not have done it and that needs to be addressed but so does the thing that provoked him to do it.