Relegation - McGeechan calls for an end!

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kpb
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Relegation - McGeechan calls for an end!

Post by kpb » Fri May 13, 2011 3:20 pm

Ian McGeechan(sir) has called for a end to relegation and to expand the Premiership to 14 teams.

What does the forum think?

Personally i like the idea of expanding to 14 teams,but how will this be fair if no relegation? I think that this would make a mockery of the championship and give teams in that league nothing to play for.
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Re: Relegation

Post by physiodan » Fri May 13, 2011 3:29 pm

kpbates wrote:Ian McGeechan(sir) has called for a end to relegation and to expand the Premiership to 14 teams.

What does the forum think?

Personally i like the idea of expanding to 14 teams,but how will this be fair if no relegation? I think that this would make a mockery of the championship and give teams in that league nothing to play for.
I think Geechs should go and coach a Magners League team then. Relegation means all teams fight til the bitter end. Leeds would not nearly have caused an upset at FG last week if they were guarenteed safety. 14 teams would mean more games in an alread long season but if it meant scrapping the LV Cup then it is a bonus. I think 12 in the Premiership is a safe number but more funding needs to be put to ground development of Championship clubs. Then, why not have an automatic promothion, automatic relegation with a playoff between 11th of the prem and 2nd of the championship. 2nd position could be dictated by 2nd place playing ther winner of 3rd vs 4th and then the winner of that play the 11 team. If you beat the premieship team you deserve to be in the prem and if you don't then their is a valid reason why they are there.

Bill W (2)
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Re: Relegation

Post by Bill W (2) » Fri May 13, 2011 3:41 pm

Whereas Sir Ian's case (provide stability for the 13 or 14 teams to develop their business plan over 5 years) is superficially attractive it does rather assume that the 13 or 14 will remain financially viable. This I doubt - particularly if the salary cap is increased to allow (the top) teams to compete in Europe more regulalrly and effectively.

Nonetheless there is nothing sacred about the number 12 (OK there is actually but ....) and there is no reason why the intersection of the Premiership and Championship should not be looked at. It is farcical that Pirates effectively will determine whether Leeds get relegated and yet, rightly, Leeds are already preparing for (financial) life in the championship with a reduced playing budget of £2M.
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Re: Relegation

Post by kpb » Fri May 13, 2011 3:44 pm

I agree with you when it comes to the funding on Championship grounds.Cornish Pirates could have finished top, wiped the floor in the playoffs and still not got promotion to the premiership,how can that be right??
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Re: Relegation

Post by Bill W (2) » Fri May 13, 2011 4:10 pm

kpbates wrote:I agree with you when it comes to the funding on Championship grounds.Cornish Pirates could have finished top, wiped the floor in the playoffs and still not got promotion to the premiership,how can that be right??
Particularly when some/many Premiership Clubs have inferior grounds anyway and do not satisfy the criteria that Championship sides need to to be promoted.

Perhaps what is needed is a 3 year "ring fence" after which any Premiership side that fails to satisfy the criteria is automatically relegated regardless of position in the table.
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Re: Relegation

Post by kpb » Fri May 13, 2011 4:46 pm

A "3 year ring fence" which could have (still might) given the Pirates the opportunity to play in the premiership,giving them time to develop there ground,good idea.

I also like the idea of scraping the Championship playoffs and 1st automatically promoted and then 2nd in the Championship plays 11th in the Premiership,which could have this season seen both Leeds and Newcastle relegated.
Last edited by kpb on Fri May 13, 2011 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Relegation

Post by tigerburnie » Fri May 13, 2011 5:20 pm

County cricket used to a closed shop,now that there are leagues,counties like Durham,who were minnows,can now mix with the best.
No relegation would mean a return the mediocrity of the old merit tables,with little to fight for.Not too bothered how many teams there are in the league,but they have to address the problem of playing league games during the meaningless AI's.That would allow for a proper contest for the league and a proper title for the ones who come top.
Not keen on the playoffs,but if they have to remain then there should another pot for that,surely they could find a sponser for it and get even more money in the coffers.
Then the grounds of the Championship clubs can be brought up to scratch,thus enabling a genuine "top league".
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Re: Relegation

Post by Bill W (2) » Fri May 13, 2011 5:23 pm

tigerburnie wrote:Then the grounds of the Championship clubs can be brought up to scratch,thus enabling a genuine "top league".
It is not only the grounds of (some) championship clubs that need attention. Several Premiership clubs fall short as well.
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Re: Relegation

Post by Jay C » Fri May 13, 2011 5:25 pm

I have previously commented on the ludicrous situation with the Championship promotion/relegation play offs (1st & 3rd in the play off final & bottom club are bottom again - so what was the point of all that ?), so will stick to just saying automatic promotion for the Winners and - if you must - playoffs for 2nd to 4th plus the bottom but one in the Prem.

The fact that some Prem teams are in a worse state currently than some Champ teams makes the whole 'conditional promotion' thing an absolute farce and it should be scrapped. I too like the "3 years to get up to scratch" idea - if it is applied to ALL clubs - existing and promoted - in the Prem.

Relegation HAS to stay. Expand the Prem - so that those who want to scrap relegation have a little more security - if you must, but relegation makes the leagur vibrant - and relevent - right up to the last week of action.

Scrap the LV to make room for the extra games if you want, but really the whole rugby calendar needs an overhaul - much better to scrap the autumn internationals and have a mid-season break for the 6N (& play the LV during that) IMHO.

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Re: Relegation

Post by sctiger » Fri May 13, 2011 5:53 pm

kpbates wrote:A "3 ring fence" which could have (still might) given the Pirates the opportunity to play in the premiership,giving them time to develop there ground,good idea.

I also like the idea of scraping the Championship playoffs and 1st automatically promoted and then 2nd in the Championship plays 11th in the Premiership,which could have this season seen both Leeds and Newcastle relegated.
Completely agree with that idea.

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Re: Relegation

Post by kpb » Fri May 13, 2011 6:20 pm

Jay C wrote:I have previously commented on the ludicrous situation with the Championship promotion/relegation play offs (1st & 3rd in the play off final & bottom club are bottom again - so what was the point of all that ?), so will stick to just saying automatic promotion for the Winners and - if you must - playoffs for 2nd to 4th plus the bottom but one in the Prem.

The fact that some Prem teams are in a worse state currently than some Champ teams makes the whole 'conditional promotion' thing an absolute farce and it should be scrapped. I too like the "3 years to get up to scratch" idea - if it is applied to ALL clubs - existing and promoted - in the Prem.

Relegation HAS to stay. Expand the Prem - so that those who want to scrap relegation have a little more security - if you must, but relegation makes the leagur vibrant - and relevent - right up to the last week of action.

Scrap the LV to make room for the extra games if you want, but really the whole rugby calendar needs an overhaul - much better to scrap the autumn internationals and have a mid-season break for the 6N (& play the LV during that) IMHO.

Agreed.The rugby calender needs a serious overhaul.Scrap the Autumn internationals and IMHO the six nations can go with it.We should adopt the same policy as footie,whenever Internationals are played there should be no premiership games being played.
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Re: Relegation

Post by Old Hob » Fri May 13, 2011 7:58 pm

The new Times bloke has been wafting on about this. His plan is a sort of franchise system like American football. I dod not know how teams gain or lose a franchise. I like a simple one up one down system, myself.
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Re: Relegation

Post by captain_insaino » Fri May 13, 2011 8:17 pm

I cannot see how this can garner an environment of competitive rugby environment between leagues, where is the opportunity for championship teams to get better if they can't be promoted (even though some of them don't have grounds that are good enough :smt003 )?
Additionally, the lack of a threat of relegation for the teams in the premiership at the bottom of the table will just cause them to stagnate, in my opinion

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Re: Relegation

Post by Bill W (2) » Fri May 13, 2011 8:44 pm

I think the vast majority would agree that promotion and relegation on merit is a good thing for the game.

However, where clubs can be denied promotion because their grounds are inadequate even when they are more adequate than existing premiership teams is somewhat farcical.

Thus a 3 year "moratorium" where all clubs can sort out their finances/grounds to me seems sensible.
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Re: Relegation

Post by tigerburnie » Fri May 13, 2011 10:45 pm

Lets hold up Exeter Chiefs up as an example,who would have allowed them up to the top table 2 years ago?
Why include Bristol in the expanded list,they didn't make the play off final,the Pirates did.
Too much old school ties about this ring fencing mularky,what happens if Fylde suceed in their long term plan to return to the top flight again?Or Moseley or Rosslyn Park,London Scottish/Welsh or Coventry?
The only criteria should be decided by what happens on the pitch,the RFU should be investing in the game not statues or creating new jobs for the boys(when they can make their mind up what the job actually is!!)
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.

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