tigers v newcastle teams

[Soggypitch]

Forgot to say; for a person who won't play on a Sunday, I'm amazed that Euan Murray is playing on Good Friday......

[4071]

Agree regarding Hawkins, very unlucky not to be starting. At least 36 is on the bench this week!
Interesting that Newcastle have left the two Tigers bound players (Young and Brookes) on the bench - almost a Cockerellesque selection or is it genuinely on form?

Youngs dropped out of last week's game and might not be at 100%.
Brookes has been on the bench ever since Euan Murray got signed.

[4071]

Good to see Chuter rewarded for his cameo against Gloucester, during which he lost two lineouts and one scrum against the head...

*bashes head against desk repeatedly*

He lost his first three lineouts, not just two.

I also thinks Hawkins give's us more around the field than Chute's does now.

Yes, he does.


But he's not as experienced.

[Crumblies]

Yes, he does.
But he's not as experienced.

Ah that explains it.

When its 41 - 34 with 5 minutes left and you need to close the game out. Better make sure you go with experience.

[iceman_19]

It's amazing how warped some people's views are of the game on Saturday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no huge fan of Staunton, though he is normally a pretty solid player, but blaming him for the loss is incredibly one eyed. Scott Hamilton delivered one of the worst kicks I have seen all season in the lead up to their 4th try, and yet we wouldn't dream of demanding him to be dropped. It's the same with Agulla - woefully out of position for their first try, but when Matt Smith makes a similar (actually more understandable as he was trying to cut off an overlap by tackling man and ball) mistake, people call for his head.

Staunton, Grindal, Smith and Chuter all need to start because they are all part of the reason we find ourselves on the cusp of yet another semi final. There may be more effective players (in fact there certainly are) but as part of the squad they have all earnt their places - even if it is just to give key players a rest.

We cannot expect the Tigers to play the exciting winning rugby we all crave if they fear every mistake will result in them being dropped. I fully expect Staunton and Chuter especially to be very hungry for this game, and they will deliver.

[Crumblies]

iceman_19 wrote:
...but as part of the squad they have all earnt their places

I have extracted this part of the post for consideration. You talk of earning a place. Cockerill repeatedly talks of earning the right to the shirt.

Throughout this season I and others have repeatedly espoused the rights of 12Ts, Harrison etc to be given game time.

Today the person I feel has been most hard done by is Hawkins. Throughout this season the difference between his performances and Chuters have been marginal to say the least. Yet Chutes has been selected ahead of him week on week.

In the game against Leinster Hawkins was brought on when the game was virtually dead and buried yet he added dynamism and scored a try in the closing minutes. In the game against Gloucester he was one of our stand out players yet was taken off before the game was dead and buried, his replacement it has to be said proceeded to have a nightmare.

What happens the following week our esteemed coach selects Chuter ahead of Hawkins with no rational explanation I can see.

So if you want to talk of earning a place I suggest you go and talk to Rob Hawkins, only I wouldn't get to close if I were you.

[Daveyboy]

Forgot to say; for a person who won't play on a Sunday, I'm amazed that Euan Murray is playing on Good Friday......

Great observation!

[Scuba Steve]

iceman_19 wrote:
...but as part of the squad they have all earnt their places

I have extracted this part of the post for consideration. You talk of earning a place. Cockerill repeatedly talks of earning the right to the shirt.

Throughout this season I and others have repeatedly espoused the rights of 12Ts, Harrison etc to be given game time.

Today the person I feel has been most hard done by is Hawkins. Throughout this season the difference between his performances and Chuters have been marginal to say the least. Yet Chutes has been selected ahead of him week on week.

In the game against Leinster Hawkins was brought on when the game was virtually dead and buried yet he added dynamism and scored a try in the closing minutes. In the game against Gloucester he was one of our stand out players yet was taken off before the game was dead and buried, his replacement it has to be said proceeded to have a nightmare.

What happens the following week our esteemed coach selects Chuter ahead of Hawkins with no rational explanation I can see.

So if you want to talk of earning a place I suggest you go and talk to Rob Hawkins, only I wouldn't get to close if I were you.

Totaly agree, well said

[MurphysLaw]

[quote="Scuba Steve"][quote="Crumblies"][quote]iceman_19 wrote:
...but as part of the squad they have all earnt their places[/quote]

I have extracted this part of the post for consideration. You talk of earning a place. Cockerill repeatedly talks of earning the right to the shirt.

Throughout this season I and others have repeatedly espoused the rights of 12Ts, Harrison etc to be given game time.

Today the person I feel has been most hard done by is Hawkins. Throughout this season the difference between his performances and Chuters have been marginal to say the least. Yet Chutes has been selected ahead of him week on week.

In the game against Leinster Hawkins was brought on when the game was virtually dead and buried yet he added dynamism and scored a try in the closing minutes. In the game against Gloucester he was one of our stand out players yet was taken off before the game was dead and buried, his replacement it has to be said proceeded to have a nightmare.

What happens the following week our esteemed coach selects Chuter ahead of Hawkins with no rational explanation I can see.

So if you want to talk of earning a place I suggest you go and talk to Rob Hawkins, only I wouldn't get to close if I were you.[/quote]

Totaly agree, well said [/quote]

I think Hawkins is a little unlucky not to start after last week. I also think Chuter has done a good job for Tigers this season, and after a short turnaround, it isn't that surprising that there is rotation. It is doubtful, hopefully, that when Hawkins comes on against Newcastle, he will be in a pack that has a lock that has been replaced by a back; that has two tight-head props; and is facing a fresh set of forwards the calibre of Dorran-Jones, Azam and Alex Brown.

[Lincs Stu]

I'm surprised at some of the negativity on here, lets not forget who we are playing here; Newcastle, not Leinster or Toulouse.

The XV, as picked, should beat them comfortably. I know that they are fighting for survival, but apart from Gopperth for Staunton, I doubt that I would choose any of their players ahead of ours in a combined XV. Grindal and Staunton aren't going to set too many pulses racing, granted, but it is not the game to risk your first choice half back pairing and aggravate any niggles they have. A solid performance should be sufficient to beat this lot and I presume after last weeks Super 15 effort with Glaws thats what Cockers wants from this selection. Do enough to win, guarantee home Semi, use the game against Irish to give people rest/game time as needed.

Having said that I don't want to appear too cocky and we could easily lose if we don't put a performance in!

[kingol22]

This game is going to be immensely difficult to win and any one that thinks we should easily beat them is kidding themselves. they are a good side and are fighting for there careers in gopperth they have a 10 that puts them in the right parts of the pitch and takes the points. this game is going to be one of the toughest league games we play because of what is at stake for newcastle.

[Scuba Steve]

I think Hawkins is a little unlucky not to start after last week. I also think Chuter has done a good job for Tigers this season, and after a short turnaround, it isn't that surprising that there is rotation. It is doubtful, hopefully, that when Hawkins comes on against Newcastle, he will be in a pack that has a lock that has been replaced by a back; that has two tight-head props; and is facing a fresh set of forwards the calibre of Dorran-Jones, Azam and Alex Brown.[/quote]

Yes Chute's has done a good job for us this season, i dont think any os us would say otherwise, but the first 3 lineouts we lost after he came on (2 if i remember were inside the Glaws 22) were his fault. Plus what little game time Cockers has actualy given Hawkins he has always played well, if not better at times than Chute's so deserved more game time this season i think. I would have liked a bit more rotation at hooker this season as has been the case at prop (i.e Castro, Cole).

[mike]

I think you may be underestimating the strength of the Newcastle pack - they have an excellent front row and Hudson is a fine lock . I'm reaching the stage that I can't take Cockerill seriously - all this stuff about young players needing to earn the 'shirt' whilst older , more experienced players are rewarded for serial imcompetence on a regular basis . Chuter's cameo appearance last week was one of the worst 20 minute individual displays that I have seen in 35 years of watching Tigers - how on earth did he retain his place after that showing .One of the very few who played well last week - 12trees - is dumped onto the bench - crazy !

[Jay C]

The removal of form as a selection criterion really does help when it comes to naming a side.

4071 I have to agree with your sentiment - although you do sound a little more bitter than I !!

Staunton, Grindal, Smith and Chuter all need to start because they are all part of the reason we find ourselves on the cusp of yet another semi final. There may be more effective players (in fact there certainly are) but as part of the squad they have all earnt their places - even if it is just to give key players a rest.

Yes there are more effective players - and they are warming the bench instead of starting.

...apart from Gopperth for Staunton, I doubt that I would choose any of their players ahead of ours in a combined XV.

Stu - I think the point (again) is rather that I (& others) think we have better options in our own squad (even after resting our first choice half backs) than some of those selected to start in this game.

Also, after messing up the substitutions last game out, I hope Cockers makes best use of the bench this time round ......

Come on Tigers !!