It this indicative of our current youth setup?

[Jay C]

Whilst making a valid point jg, it is not answering the one made by 4071, (which I agree with), but complementing it, ergo

Why buy Robinson to play one game all season when you already have Hurrell itching for a chance to prove his worth ?

Why bring in Myburgh when Matt Everard is at the club ?

Why play Spice when Harrison was fit ?

Who is the "better" player in each of these examples ?? It is not at all clear that the 'import' is better than the 'local', but it is clear to me that the 'local' had more of a past/future with the club and therefore deserved the chance more.

These are the type of situations where you cannot see how the club has benefited by the decisions made.
It only appears that we have lost out on either testing a player or improving a player which could have added real value to the club and also encouraged all others coming through the academy that they will get their chance ......

[Old Hob]

This seems to be a parallel with many organisations and I hope Tigers can shake themselves and get rid of the habit; that is of thinking that people outside the organisation are worth more/ know more/ are better value than people inside. That is why some "consultants" do so well whereas people doing the work inside are ignored.

[Bill W (2)]

Who is the "better" player in each of these examples ?? It is not at all clear that the 'import' is better than the 'local', but it is clear to me that the 'local' had more of a past/future with the club and therefore deserved the chance more.

These are the type of situations where you cannot see how the club has benefited by the decisions made.
It only appears that we have lost out on either testing a player or improving a player which could have added real value to the club and also encouraged all others coming through the academy that they will get their chance ......

Might it be that the club is missing the informed and educated eye of W. Hare Esq.?

[tigerblood]

Having been through the system, this is very much the Tigers ethic and you are very much aware that the truly exceptional get their chance. A lot of academy boys get game time elsewhere because their clubs are not fighting it out every week in the HC and competing in the top 4 of the Prem where there is so much at stake. One exception is Farrell at Sarries, he got his chance through the good fortune of having others such as Goode fail in the position and injuries to others. There is no doubt Faz has talent but had others not succumbed to injury would he have broken through this year?!?!

Very surprised Matt Everard has been deemed surplus to requirements. Having played with him he stood out head and shoulders above the rest at every age group level, heavens he was voted U18 6 nations player of the year just two seasons ago and captained the Dev. team. This won't be the last we hear from him.

Agree completely that the academy boys should be given a chance over 2nd rate players such as the Robinson's of this world, and the policy of bringing in players on emergency cover is completely ludicrous, use what you have I say. We clearly have a strong set of back up players (they won the Dev league back to back) give them their shot instead of wasting money and cap space on players that were never worthy of pulling on a Tigers shirt.

[Bill W (2)]

Agree completely that the academy boys should be given a chance over 2nd rate players such as the Robinson's of this world, and the policy of bringing in players on emergency cover is completely ludicrous, use what you have I say. We clearly have a strong set of back up players (they won the Dev league back to back) give them their shot instead of wasting money and cap space on players that were never worthy of pulling on a Tigers shirt.

Very useful input tigerblood. Welcome to the forum!

How much do the Academy boys see of Cockers and O'Connor?

[The Boy Dave]

I don't think the first team coaches see an awful lot of the academy. I don't think they trust the system at present and you can't blame them, after all they are responsible for their own positions and don't have time to do others jobs for them. Many coaches and scouts are too busy looking for athletes these days and miss the raw talents of a true rugby player. If we are honest one of our finest academy players of recent times 'Dan Cole' isn't exactly an athlete but he is a true rugby player and a fine example of what you can find if you look properly.

[Bill W (2)]

I don't think the first team coaches see an awful lot of the academy. I don't think they trust the system at present and you can't blame them, after all they are responsible for their own positions and don't have time to do others jobs for them. Many coaches and scouts are too busy looking for athletes these days and miss the raw talents of a true rugby player. If we are honest one of our finest academy players of recent times 'Dan Cole' isn't exactly an athlete but he is a true rugby player and a fine example of what you can find if you look properly.

An interesting observation on coaches and scouts.

I think Dusty knew how to look properly and was very involved with the Academy players.

[Smudge]

I was astonished when I heard that Matt Everard had been released.
Right in the middle of the under twenties world cup when he is representing
England. Even if you discount all the accolades he has received, to let this happen
at this time seems crass (to put it mildly).

I have always relied on the coaching expertise of our people at the club but things
like this are really causing me to doubt their wisdom.
Tigerblood and 4071 make a very telling case.Does anyone in the boardroom read this?

[4071]

I was astonished when I heard that Matt Everard had been released.
Right in the middle of the under twenties world cup when he is representing
England. Even if you discount all the accolades he has received, to let this happen
at this time seems crass (to put it mildly).

I don't think he's that concerned about it - I think that the parting of ways was mutual, and he'd made the decision even before the JWC started. I mentioned about a month ago on this forum that Everard was looking at options elsewhere because of the lack of opportunities at Tigers. It's that lack of opportunity that is going to make talented young players have second thoughts about Leicester.

At the moment we are clinging by fingernails onto a hard-fought reputation as a club that produces and nurtures players, and gets the best out of them. That's why the Leicester Academy has been so successful (in terms of results and - until recently - product). This is going to change. Players are now not only being released while still in their teens - they are also deciding to leave. When the top young players in the country are looking to leave the Leicester Academy set-up, we're going to find it a lot harder to persuade the next Dan Cole or Ben Youngs or Manu Tuilagi to stick around.

18/19-year old kids are aware that they will get more opportunities and better development (in terms of playing) if they are at clubs like Gloucester, Harlequins and Saracens rather than at Leicester. And given that all three sides won trophies this season and we didn't, how long are we going to be able to use on-field success as a draw?

[Bill W (2)]

[ When the top young players in the country are looking to leave the Leicester Academy set-up, we're going to find it a lot harder to persuade the next Dan Cole or Ben Youngs or Manu Tuilagi to stick around.

18/19-year old kids are aware that they will get more opportunities and better development (in terms of playing) if they are at clubs like Gloucester, Harlequins and Saracens rather than at Leicester. And given that all three sides won trophies this season and we didn't, how long are we going to be able to use on-field success as a draw?

You paint a very glum picture 4071.

Something needs to be done and done quickly.

[The Boy Dave]

Something does need doing but the problem is that the people on the inside of the club are THE PROBLEM. They have their little circle of trust and will not allow anyone into it who may have the courage to stand up to them, why else do you think Dusty got fed up and moved on. He must have saw all this coming and as much as he would have liked to put it right he was helpless to do a thing about it.

[Bill W (2)]

Something does need doing but the problem is that the people on the inside of the club are THE PROBLEM. They have their little circle of trust and will not allow anyone into it who may have the courage to stand up to them, why else do you think Dusty got fed up and moved on. He must have saw all this coming and as much as he would have liked to put it right he was helpless to do a thing about it.

I do understand very well why Dusty left.

[POSTIGER]

Since Dusty left there does not seem to be an advocate for the young players. Cockers is not a man for gambling on youth unless they are truly outstanding (Manu / Dan). He is ultra conservative which, whilst not completely a bad thing isn't a particularly good thing either. Dusty left because he was banging his head aganist a brick wall - he was recruiting and developing youngsters for what purpose exactly? So they could be released without ever having a proper opportunity?

This cannot be blamed entirely on Cockers. Wheeler etc have made it very clear they expect to win silverware every season. Time is not a luxury a Tigers coach gets. To some extent it is understandable when Cockers leaves nothing to chance. Look at the top football clubs. How many Chelsea players have come through the ranks recently? Or at Man U? You could argue they have at Arsenal but they haven't won a trophy for 5 years.

[Bill W (2)]

This cannot be blamed entirely on Cockers. Wheeler etc have made it very clear they expect to win silverware every season. Time is not a luxury a Tigers coach gets. To some extent it is understandable when Cockers leaves nothing to chance..

Ahem. The only silverware we won was the A team trophy. So things were left to chance.

Agree with your comments on Dusty.

[POSTIGER]

This cannot be blamed entirely on Cockers. Wheeler etc have made it very clear they expect to win silverware every season. Time is not a luxury a Tigers coach gets. To some extent it is understandable when Cockers leaves nothing to chance..

Ahem. The only silverware we won was the A team trophy. So things were left to chance.

Agree with your comments on Dusty.

I didn't see Cockers had been successful Bill!