Chuter and Cockerill in the Mercury

[smalldell]

I must have been watching a different game to them because they seem to think we played some of our best rugby.

I agree that there is an issue with Flood and Cockerill speaks about it in his article, but when he says you would have to ask him (Aldred) about that...shouldn't it be Cockerill who is asking the questions. If he thinks England have done something wrong to a player surely it is the coaches duty to find out..

I really think this hang on game plan was flawed, Castro and Wladrom should have started.

Chuter seems to think we played well.....Lets hope we can play that well for the rest of the season...not

[BJ.]

Castro and Wladrom should have started.

Wladrom? Who he?

[Smurphswillgetya]

.

I really think this hang on game plan was flawed, Castro and Wladrom should have started.

Chuter seems to think we played well.....Lets hope we can play that well for the rest of the season...not

Castro had to be on the bench to cover loosehead and this was expected as soon as Ayerza ban was confirmed. Crane is slightly better than Waldrom defensively and was needed to counter the carrying of Heaslip and O'Brien. Bar a few players we played virtually the Irish international team and could have won so perhaps we did play well as Chuter says. Even Newby said this was international intensity. We had Mafi a 21 year old play at lock against Cullen and Hines and he played well. We had a 24 and 19 year old playing at centre against a partnership of BOD and Darcy who have played alongside each other for Ireland and Leinster for a long time and they held their own.

Some people need to get a reality check and stop moaning. I was at the Aviva and until the final whistle went I still felt we could have won! Small margins that's all the difference. We will learn and come back stronger.

[tonbridgetiger]

I am still trying to get my head around this insistence by some that Castro should have been on the bench to cover loosehead.

Surely in the level of rugby Heineken Cup is, you need your best players and Castro is better then Dan Cole Imo. And Cole didn't play that well.

Crane maybe better defensively, although I am not entirely sure on that one, but surely again a more attacking option was needed against Leinster as we needed to take the game to them more then let them run the game which they often did. I watched it on telly by the way.

I tend to be more inclined to agree with the likes of smalldell.

I don't understand where Cockerill and Chuter are coming from in the Mercury. We played ok, quite well in small patches, but to say we played well, is misguided. Leinster were the better team.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I am still trying to get my head around this insistence by some that Castro should have been on the bench to cover loosehead.

You have to have bench cover for every position in the front row. Dan cannot play loosehead.


The only other possible way to play it was Castro starting at loosehea, Dan at tighthead with Julian/Stanko on the bench.

This would have removed the choice to bring Castro on as a replacement at tighthead and still be able to switch him to loosehead if Stanko got injured and Julian came on to cover tighthead

[mike]

Of course we did not need Castro on the bench for cover - he is perfectly able to play well at loosehead as he showed against Munster , probably our best away win in recent years . Preferring Crane over Waldrom was just daft - yet another of the ultra defensive selection decisions that cockerill has made in Europe over the past 2 years . To succeed in the Heineken cup you have to have a strategy that is more than just damage limitation and until Cockerill wakes up to this we will continue to slide down the rankings .

[JohnB]

Leicester played very well. While Leinster's poor finishing kept Leicester in the game to a greater degree than should have been the case, the Tigers only lost by 7 points away from home. Very, very few teams have won away qtr finals or semi finals in the HEC. Leinster's players were reportedly shattered after the game and reportedly have been given time off until tomorrow by Joe Schmidt. I was amazed that Mafi is only 21. He's a great prospect as is Tuilagi Minor who with more experience and continued good coaching could become a truly terrific player.Allen and Tuilagi performed very capably against BOD and Darcy who have one of the longest established centre partnerships in the history of the game as far as I'm aware. The old adage that games are won or lost by forwards held true in this instance. Our scrum held up very well and we gave the Tigers line out a roasting (admitedly by fairly illegal means). However, it was in the loose that our forwards excelled themselves. Our front and back rows,in particular, were terrific in this regard and they needed to be. Mike Ross's mobility around the pitch was a relevation to us. He has improved immeasureably in that facet of his game since he returned to Ireland and started getting consistent game time with Leinster. Healy and Strauss have always been dynamic in the loose. We have a good ball carrying pack most of whom are adept at off loading the ball to ensure continuity of attack. I do think that some of the Tigers forwards were more inclined to seek contact than to seek space on Saturday while in possession of the ball which, given the quality of our defence, played into our hands somewhat. Still, if I was a Tigers supporter I'd be very pleased and comforted by the quality of some of the emerging players in the Tigers Squad which bodes very well for the future.

[salcombe bob]

thanks John B, very good and encouraging report. Good luck.

[g]

I tend to agree with smalldell, I thought Tigers never remotely looked like winning on Saturday.And Cockerill and Chuter were obviously watching a different game to me. I also think Waldrom should have started as he carries and offloads better than Crane who just tends to be a bosh merchant.

There was an interesting article in the Sunday papers where the reporter was saying that Cockerills conservatism is basically killing Tigers chances of any European Glory in the future and I tend to agree. I also think Tigers are not dominant in the scrum anymore and on several occasions this season have been bullied in this area.

I hope Hawkins gets a bit more games as I believe Chuter is well passed his sell by date. Until Cockerill stops playing plodders and starts being more dynamic then all that Tigers will ever compete for is the Aviva Premiership.

[Minty]

thats a good post from JohnB

i did a rough list of players ages from DOB not exact as i just took the years of birth, but we do have a young side who will learn from this weekend.

LEICESTER TIGERS:

S Hamilton 30
H Agulla 26
M Tuilagi 19
A Allen 24
A Tuilagi 29
T Flood 25
B Youngs 21
B Stankovich 30
G Chuter 34
D Cole 25
L Deacon 30
S Mafi 21
T Croft 25
C Newby 31
J Crane 24

E Slater 20
R Hawkins 25
T Waldrom 27

[voice of the crumbie]

However well or badly people think we played we were only an Alesana Tuilagi knee away from a 17 - 17 draw and extra time.

On another day with a different ref picking up the lineout infringements for example or being consistent at the breakdown and the rub of the green there might have been a very different result.

Imagine if Alex had scored, if Ed Slater had managed to get his offload away to TTTE, if Floody had kicked that penalty, if the forward pass fro Nacewa's try had been spotted, if Leinster had scored the try they bombed in the first half etc, etc

It is, as Cockers has said, down to small margins.

With the new recruits coming next season plus the players we have - established and developing - we will have a squad capable of winning the Heineken Cup. Whether we will, will be down to what happens on the day.

[Smurphswillgetya]

I hope people remember that in 1997 we got hammered by Brive in the final. Some players like Deano, Wells and Liley were coming to the end of their careers and some promising youngsters were coming through (Johnson etc). They learned a lesson that day and came back to lead us to glory. Our new youngsters like Cole, Flood, Allen, Youngs, Slater, Mafi and Manu will also learn from Saturday and come back stronger and wiser.

[Minty]

Were doing well with x2 back row players at Second Row, both Mafi & Slater are back row converts and both under 21 years of age.

Parling was a key part of the success last season & Skivington & Deaks have been big players this season so far.

When will we have a fully fit sqaud when we need one !!!

[sam16111986]

I also think Waldrom should have started as he carries and offloads better than Crane who just tends to be a bosh merchant.

Yes but Crane offers a lot more at the breakdown and has the common sense Waldrom lacks. Like not tapping and going from a scrum penalty in your own 22 because there's no support and a Leinster defensive line waiting to tackle and turn you over. A stupid 3 points to concede. Especially when the alternative was to let Flood smash the ball upto half way and for us to have the lineout.

[MurphysLaw]

Just a thought....Cockerill has come in for a fair amount of criticism, both in the media and on here, for not starting with Castro.
Yet I don't think anyone has mentioned the fact that Castro had a huge strapping on his knee. Could it be that he was not 100% fit, and hence wasn't picked to start?
If so, it begs the question as to whether he should have been in the squad at all, but then again you might argue that Castro at 90% for the last 20 minutes is still worth having.