The Scrum - not so dominant anymore?

[Luke]

I'll start this post by saying I have never played in the front row and, though an avid fan of rugby, can seldom understand why one particular pack is able to get the upper hand at scrum time and 10mins later the fortunes are reversed.

But...

Is it just me or have Tigers been a lot less dominant in the scrum over the last few months? Off the top of my head I can think of four recent games (Perpignan, Northampton, Sale and Wasps) where the opposition have at least held their own and at most marched us back.

Of course we didn't lose any of those games and I'm only talking about us being less dominant, rather than being overpowered (so this isn't a doom and gloom post, just looking for a reasonable explanation), but it seems to me that a once-guaranteed area of the dominance for Tigers is now much more of a level playing field.

Discuss...

[GT1]

I watched our pack get stuffed in Perpignan until Castro came on & Freshwater went off (we did lose that game Luke) the ref is a vital cog in the scrum, on that day Lewis allowed both Perps props to bore/turn in without penalizing either in fact Lewis decided that it was the hookers fault & yellow carded both!!!
If the ref allows this to carry on most of the teams will nullify our scrum, sometimes you just have to admit (like Saints game) that there are other good scrums out there.
England v France should be a scrum lovers dream but will ref (G Clancy & LEWIS running line) spoil it?

[Bill W (2)]

I agree with GT1.

The scrum is a wonderful contest - and that is what it should be, a contest.

It would appear that too few refs are able to adjudicate it.

[jack]

Wise words, Bill!

[Crumblies]

Wise words, Bill!

Indeed,

If we want a decent scrum contest we would be better with a French referee even if we are playing France.

[BJ.]

I agree with GT1.

The scrum is a wonderful contest - and that is what it should be, a contest.

It would appear that too few refs are able to adjudicate it.

Perhaps all future refs should be ex-fat lads. Let's face it, all the girls do is mince around most of the time so they don't need looking after.

[Bill W (2)]

I agree with GT1.

The scrum is a wonderful contest - and that is what it should be, a contest.

It would appear that too few refs are able to adjudicate it.

Perhaps all future refs should be ex-fat lads. Let's face it, all the girls do is mince around most of the time so they don't need looking after.

I don't mind the nancy boys becoming refs - but before they do they should "serve time" at the blunt end!!

[Smudge]

Is it me or are refs taking longer and longer with the "touch pause, engage" now?
There is no rhythm or meter to most of them.In fact it is embarrassingly bad.
Surely it would be best to go back to the pack down and allow no pushing until
the ball goes in? (Straight of course)
That way there no hit and one point of danger is avoided.
The push would just be as now.

[Bill W (2)]

Is it me or are refs taking longer and longer with the "touch pause, engage" now?
There is no rhythm or meter to most of them.In fact it is embarrassingly bad.
Surely it would be best to go back to the pack down and allow no pushing until
the ball goes in? (Straight of course)
That way there no hit and one point of danger is avoided.
The push would just be as now.

This has been observed on this forum before. From mightymouse amongst others.

The Laws of the Game still stipulate that "Thou shalt not push until the ball is in". The "Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage" is a fabrication of the nancy boy refs and their southern hemisphere cronies who cannot do with a scrum contest. Fold the frontrows in together. Ball put in (straight), second rows straighten their legs, front rows duck, weave etc (but must stay square and flat).

All went wrong when the SH (apart from SA) who cannot master this art tried to change the "interpretations" with a load of nancy boy refs who were not capable of understanding!

[Smurphswillgetya]

I
England v France should be a scrum lovers dream but will ref (G Clancy & LEWIS running line) spoil it?

Yes

[Old Hob]

Is it me or are refs taking longer and longer with the "touch pause, engage" now?
There is no rhythm or meter to most of them.In fact it is embarrassingly bad.
Surely it would be best to go back to the pack down and allow no pushing until
the ball goes in? (Straight of course)
That way there no hit and one point of danger is avoided.
The push would just be as now.

I believe the "no rhythm/ metre" is deliberate. "Crouch" beat "Pause" beat "Touch" beat "Enga.."CRUNCH.

I think it was there when the system was first introduced and led to 1, 2, 3 charge.

[fleabane]

Best do without it then, and return to the old system. Fold, put-in, push!

[kingneptuneii]

Ive noticed this a lot recently, ref's taking a very long time to get from "crouch" to "engage". and, as a former masochistic front rower myself, I find this very very worrying.
The shear potential energy in your legs when your crouched properly (with, lets face it a good 90-100 stone poised up your backside) is absolutely huge. the longer you're crouched, the more potential energy is built up. imagine, if you will, attaching a large rock to an elastic catapult, the longer you pull back and hold the rock. the harder and more erratic its flight will be, after an eternity, when you hear "engage", you have
A) a great deal of force from your legs propelling you vaguely forward(ish) and
B)5 other big blokes seemingly trying to push THROUGH you into the scrum (i found this particularly tough when playing with those annoying no.8s who like to "fire in" to the scrum by leaning back on they haunches and then heaving forward into the second rows." with this sheer amount of force its no wonder that scrums are going down and dominance is proving harder to come by. its all being left to the initial Hit. and whoever loses that hit, with that level of tensile energy being transferred though, is going to find it ruddy hard to keep a level of ascendency.

[Mat]

People can blame the ref, opposition players etc but simply the biggest problem is that the ball is not put in straight so it is not a competition so peopel go for a a hit. If we had a return to putting the ball in straight and not fed into the secondrow we would see far more competitve scrums and fewer would go down.

The interesting thing is that from my obseravtion of watching my local side in National 2North hardly any scrums are reset and the compete for the ball with the scrum half penalised for not putting in straight.

The problem i c at the highest level is it that we are heading for the RL scrum that is just for restarting the game with secured ball. This i think is wrong and anti RU, we need to compete and stop all these re-set scrums that lead people to say we need to remove the scrum. When all that needs to happen is put the ball in straight!

[Bill W (2)]

People can blame the ref,.............. all that needs to happen is put the ball in straight!

And who pray adjudicates whether the ball goes in straight?

Is that not the ref?