The Haka, and other challenges

[DickyP]

Think two of the greatest moments I've seen in rugby were when Cockers stood up to his opposite number and when England fans sang Swing Low over the haka in 2002. Couldn't have made the atmosphere any better, and to watch the haka in silence wouldn't be right! It should be a confrontation on both sides

If they are the 2 greatest moments you have seen watching rugby I suggest you either haven't watched much rugby. Or that you are the sort of person the great game of rugby can well do without. Cockers hardly covered himself in glory that day that day. And how singing an American Negro gospel song durng what is one of the sports great traditions can be regarded as an acheivement shows a lack of class, respect, dignity and inteligence. The sort of behaviour one would expect from the lowest element of soccer fan.

Disagree with someone's opinion by all means but don't be abusive.

[Cliffeclimber]

How would people react to booing and jeering during the singing of the national anthems? These are similar symbolic rituals. And how do people feel about the crowd at Minellium Stadium shouting and jeering during the two minutes silence?

Surely the same logical response ought to be given to them all; though I guess many rugby fans aren't in a logical state of mind when they watch rugby. The drink and the emotions take over, sadly.

[APJones]

I prefer to hear and see the haka performed in silence , I believe it goads the england team into action - it is something special and is part of a special team. It doesn't intimidate anybody it only serves to focus the English teams efforts .
I also like to hear swing low when England are playing well or need support - but did you notice the crowd didn't know the words - only the one line ?

Personally I think the crowd should give a rendering of swing low as a retaliation to the haka or other 'chants' immediately afterwards, just as the players are getting ready to kick off.
i.e. We get the last word before play commences

What I don't like is Gawd save the queen played for England when it is the British national anthem. That godawful dirge applies to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and the commonwealth countries ), yet they all have their own 'national ' anthem played when comes to the 6 nations etc.

[DickyP]

What I don't like is Gawd save the queen played for England when it is the British national anthem. That godawful dirge applies to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and the commonwealth countries ), yet they all have their own 'national ' anthem played when comes to the 6 nations etc.

Don't necessarily agree with your depths of apparent dislike for the national anthem as a tune, but absolutely agree that we should have an English anthem when teams represent just England and not the UK. If an event as disorganized as the Commonwealth Games can manage it why can't the RFU?

Jerusalem which is used for the Commonwealth games is far more rousing, is easy to sing and has the huge kudos of being a popular choice - to quote Wikipedia:

"On St George's Day, April 23, 2010, the Commonwealth Games Council for England launched a poll to allow the public to decide which anthem is to be played at the 2010 Commonwealth Games in Delhi, India. Voters could choose between God Save The Queen, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory with the winning song being adopted as the official anthem for Team England. Jerusalem was declared the winner on 30 May 2010, securing 52% of the vote."

[Big Dai]

The Hakka? Cockers had the right idea!

Twickenham crowd tried to down out the Samoan equivalent to the haka (note only one k)

Thank you headmaster! Please note the "up yours!"

[Big Dai]

It's a :censored: war dance! So What?

A fellow leaps around pulling funny faces and making "I'll slit your throat" jestures coupled with the "odd stabbing with a spear" motion? The last thing I'll give it is respect.

Just watch the old all blacks (1960's) with their version...very tame in comparison!

Give 'em a drop of Henry V!

[kingneptuneii]

If its so bleeding sacred why has it been changed umpteen times? The Kapa O Pango (or the "cut throat Haka") was one of the most offensive things I have seen before a test match in recent history. if the Haka is so special to them, why did it warrant an adaption?

[Rizzo]

I know this often starts off heated debate but please - do not use abusive terms or insult other users for expressing their opinion, as long as nothing breaks forum rules, everyone is entitled to say what they think/feel.

[Big Dai]

I know this often starts off heated debate but please - do not use abusive terms or insult other users for expressing their opinion, as long as nothing breaks forum rules, everyone is entitled to say what they think/feel.

AH! The shrill blast of the ACME Thunderer! Just expressing an "up yours" to Bill for correcting my spelling!

He'll take it in the spirit it's meant I'm sure. Possibly gin!

[valerie]

i would sooner see the haka, than get beat by the new zealanders.

[G.K]

Are you a French centre then?

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Why not have the haka before the anthems?

The culture/heritage is still there and then the teams have the 5/6 minutes of anthems and whatever to allow both teams to psych themselves up.

If the IRB are so afraid of reactions to the haka stop the haka - you can't force the rest of the world into submitting meekly to what is a challenge?

Why have a challenge if you are not allowed to respond or you are told within what boundaries you are allowed to respond?

[Bill W (2)]

I know this often starts off heated debate but please - do not use abusive terms or insult other users for expressing their opinion, as long as nothing breaks forum rules, everyone is entitled to say what they think/feel.

AH! The shrill blast of the ACME Thunderer! Just expressing an "up yours" to Bill for correcting my spelling!

He'll take it in the spirit it's meant I'm sure. Possibly gin!

No offence taken Big Dai!

Cheers! (With a Remy of course!)

[jack]

simples - Land of Hope and Glory for the English anthem.

NZ haka - sing if you want.

Samoans - Just appreciate.