The Haka, and other challenges

[fleabane]

I was pleased that the Irish crowd did not try to drown out the Haka in the way that the Twickenham crowd managed to do to the Samoan challenge.

Is it because the Irish crowd is more interested in rugby, the game and it's heritage?

The Haka was a highlight for me at WR a couple of seasons ago when is was listened to in silence before being wildly cheered.

[Big Dai]

The Hakka? Cockers had the right idea!

[Bill W (2)]

The Hakka? Cockers had the right idea!

Twickenham crowd tried to down out the Samoan equivalent to the haka (note only one k)

[BHB]

Why do suppopters at Twickenham try to drown out the HAKA ?
It is part of rugby tradition & folklore, enjoyb it as pert of the game.

[kingneptuneii]

What makes the Haka so sacred that it must be observed in silent reverence?
Its ridiculous enough that the IRB impose sanctions on anyone encrouching over their 10m line during the Haka, without this idea that it needs to be observed in some kind of shock and awe.
If the ABs came to WR again, I would be dissapointed if we didnt try to counteract it,
Yes, the Haka, the Sivi'tau and the like are lovely traditions, but they are by no means sacred rites that deserve the fear and deadpan reaction the IRB wish them to have.

Its supposed to be a chalenge right? so its surely our job to face and accept it ;)

unless, of course, it's a actually purely a cynical attempt to intimidate they opposition, perish the thought

[Sam W]

Think two of the greatest moments I've seen in rugby were when Cockers stood up to his opposite number and when England fans sang Swing Low over the haka in 2002. Couldn't have made the atmosphere any better, and to watch the haka in silence wouldn't be right! It should be a confrontation on both sides

[trendylfj]

What makes the Haka so sacred that it must be observed in silent reverence?
Its ridiculous enough that the IRB impose sanctions on anyone encrouching over their 10m line during the Haka, without this idea that it needs to be observed in some kind of shock and awe.
If the ABs came to WR again, I would be dissapointed if we didnt try to counteract it,
Yes, the Haka, the Sivi'tau and the like are lovely traditions, but they are by no means sacred rites that deserve the fear and deadpan reaction the IRB wish them to have.

Its supposed to be a chalenge right? so its surely our job to face and accept it ;)

unless, of course, it's a actually purely a cynical attempt to intimidate they opposition, perish the thought

It should be respected and listened to in silence!!!!!

It is a sacred rite!!!!

On the last lions tour to NZ, I had the priviledge to face the Haka on 3 occasions. One at a school given by the children who welcomed me and one by 4 Mauri's who I did not know but welcomed me to their bonfire (and threatened to make me into the guy) party after the NZ Mauri's had beaten the Lions and I can assure everyone that they do believe that it is a sacred rite. Here is the link to the page which confirms the rite issue : http://history-nz.org/maori2.html
The last time was at a Mauri village in Rotorua where the history of the Haka was also explained to us. I was told in no uncertain terms the way I must repect the Haka so as not to cause offence and insult to the warriors performing it to me - I was part of a group of 20 people but was chosen to face the Haka alone - scarey.

What a truely wonderful experience

Yes it is also a challenge which I believe that we should listen to, respect and then issue our own challenge with swing low

[G.K]

You've gone native and should move down there on the next plane!

So you should show respect to someone who is threatening to cut your throat?

No way - I'm with Cockers all the way on this one.

[JWM]

[duplicate posted in error]

[JWM]

They don't do the 'throat cutting' bit anymore.

In terms of 'rugby heritage and tradition' I like the old Haka, the one that served the ABs very well for decauses and decades until a couple of years ago. Are they still doing the 'new' one, cos I can't hear it over the jeering crowd?

This is the 'trad' one I mean (though a slightly unusual version of it...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFN95_Wc ... re=related

[kingneptuneii]

I'm now of the beleif it should be watched and enjoyed as part of the game.

Well I enjoy a game of rugby by shouting, chanting, and generally making plenty of noise in support of my team so surely the Haka, as part of the game, should be treated in the same way?

[Rizzo]

As a Devil's advocate here, it is a sacred rite to the Maori - but not all the players are Maori. I haven't got a problem with it, I just wish they would give a definitive rule as to how you are allowed to respond. Brian O'Driscoll allegedly did research in depth, and there was a bit about picking a blade of grass as a symbolic response - and we know what happened to him within a few minutes of that game starting!

Are the opposing team allowed to respond in any way? Do they just have to stand there (getting cold) and watch meekly? Is it "disrespectful" to have the crowd sing or chant over it? For goodness sake New Zealand rugby - let the rest of the world know once and for all what you think we are "allowed" to do while your players do their Haka!

For some more history try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka_%28sports%29

[stevetelcom2000]

Think two of the greatest moments I've seen in rugby were when Cockers stood up to his opposite number and when England fans sang Swing Low over the haka in 2002. Couldn't have made the atmosphere any better, and to watch the haka in silence wouldn't be right! It should be a confrontation on both sides

If they are the 2 greatest moments you have seen watching rugby I suggest you either haven't watched much rugby. Or that you are the sort of person the great game of rugby can well do without. Cockers hardly covered himself in glory that day that day. And how singing an American Negro gospel song durng what is one of the sports great traditions can be regarded as an acheivement shows a lack of class, respect, dignity and inteligence. The sort of behaviour one would expect from the lowest element of soccer fan.

[DickyP]

Surely singing 'Sweet Low' is just answering the challenge? This sort of response is as much a tradition as the Haka itself - in 1905 the first AB tour the Welsh crowd sang the Welsh anthem when the Haka was done!

Besides which the Haka isn't that much of a tradition as the team that toured Britain in 1935-36 did not perform one before matches. Indeed the 1921 third test against the Springboks is the first time there is a record of one being performed in New Zealand, as opposed to 'on tour'.

[G.K]

Please explain:

Englishmen singing a song adopted from a negro spiritual song and that has now become a tradition at all England Rugby games is not in fact a tradition and is to be derided whenever sung.

New Zealand Rugby players of mainly European descent adopting a native Maori dance is something so sacred and traditional that no one is expected to question it in any way but must meekly subjugate themselves before it or else suffer, what was one of the most shameful moments ever seen in Rugby, the experience of BOD.

You can bend over for them and talk complete tosh but don't expect the rest of us to do so.