Tigers Fans are being short-changed

[Kinoulton]

The Arsenal and Man U analogies stand up well.

But how about Liverpool? Benitez spent zillions on unknown players and they're still unknown!

[GEH]

Picking up the stable coaching point, it's easy to underestimate the disruption caused by frequent changes. So the short Argentine and South African tenures will have had a destabilising effect on the squad that judging by recent improved performances is only now working its way fully out of the system.

And on buying 'big names' who are these specific individuals that we have failed to sign and who would have ensured victory in Europe this season??

[westy154]

Player names don't really matter. We are the current Guiness Premiership Champions and sitting at the top of the playoff places looking good to at least defend our title at Twickenham. Europe may have been a disappointment this year, but there is no real shame not getting out of the pool we were in.

My point is this- big names, small names, no names who turn into big names; we are winning trophies and continue to put ourselves in positions to win trophies.

And it would appear not at the risk of financial ruin either. Short changed indeed.

[Pete]

It is the exciting players who are being short-changed.

Tigers generally win comfortably (at least at home) with an excellent pack and Ben Youngs (or Harry Ellis before his injury and loss of confidence). Tigers backs defend well and can pass the ball up and down the line endlessly. They are above all dependable.

However the X-factor players are cast out. It is good to see the exciting Varndell returning to form at Wasps after losing his confidence at Tigers. Some of his tries will long stay in my memory (whereas none of Tuilagi's ever will). Two more X-factor players, Vesty and Moody, are leaving to play for Bath - to play exciting rugby! After long term injury, Vesty has been given no chance to shine again as he did last season playing in his best position. I only hope he and Moody will star at Bath, like Varndell at Wasps.

And of course we have only been allowed a glimse, many moons ago, of the exciting Twelvetrees, and he seems now to have lost his way at Tigers as all X-factor players tend to. He would have been better off staying at Bedford, then moving to the increasingly exciting Saints.

I wonder what Austin makes of it all? At least Tigers still have Ben Youngs at his best. But for how long?

[hugh78]

This is a nicely polarised thread. Let me see...

Some of the tries Tom V has let in and his amazing loss of pace when chasing after guys like Tuilangi will stay long in the memory for me. (wasps have a 6 try scored/shipped difference we have 24!)

Vesty who was one of the main reasons we didnt win the HC final last year and Moody who is very astutely being sold at the top of his wage potential when his playing value over the next 3 years is probably declining.

12Trees who by all accounts needs to improve his defense and kicking%.

The increasingly exciting Saints? We'll see, getting to the top is one thing...much,much harder staying there.

and I'm pretty happy with our signings for next season, would anyone swap our new signings in total for another teams? I think we're doing well on that front.

(dont get me too wrong, I actually have loved watching Tom,Vesty,Moody over the years for Tigers but the king is dead, long live the king and all that)

[4071]

When did Vesty and Moody become X-factor players whilst the likes of Youngs, Croft, Castrogiovanni, Flood, Allen, Murphy, etc remain dull and predictable?

Was it, by any chance, the moment those two signed for another club?

[Darc Tiger]

And Amorosino looks the biz. Agullu is a great attacker. Tom Youngs, Duffey, Skivington and Thomas the Tank look like dynamic and exciting forwards. And Tuilagi is still an X-factor player when on good form.

Along with all the names 4071 mentioned, Id say we have plenty of exciting players. And thats not even mentioning our exceptional academy lads.

And id say a lot Varndells tries were created by others ability, and he simply ran them in, and that he has scored few more individual tries than Tuilagi. Whereas Tuilagi has the presence and ability around the field to break opposition teams down, that Varndell always struggled to deliver.

[Kinoulton]

The peoplewho want to detract from Varndell will do so whatever.

If he is in the right place to receive a pass and merely needs to run it in, then that's what he'll do.

He could run a figure of eight around the posts, walk 10 metres on his hands, pull a string of bunting from his mouth, sing the alphabet backwards to the tune of Colonel Bogey and THEN touch the ball down, just to make it more special, but it's not needed.

[Bill W (2)]

walk 10 metres on his hands, .

Might he not drop the ball if he did that Kinny?

Mind you 12T could do all that, fly round the posts, and recite Eskimo Nell in Arabic!

[bluntiger]

and that he has scored few more individual tries Tuilagi.

Lets hope he returns after the summer break in shape - we lost him for almost five months of the season this year!

[Sam W]

The problem with Varndell is he doesn't seem to have a rugby brain- you watch Tommy Bowe find these beautiful angles and lines week in, week out and he's always hunting for work and opportunities. Varndell has always been someone who just finishes things (admittedly, superbly) and not much else. Obviously his defence is always called into question, and he always looks nervous when the ball is played in his area of the park- any decent 13/15 would target him when playing their winger into his defensive zone, and it just proves too costly on occasions.

That's why he never had "the X factor", and that's why we were better off shipping him to unearth new talent

[Kinoulton]

And yet on the highlights programme the other night I saw a bloke that looked exactly like Varndell playing for Wasps (must have been a doppleganger, obviously) chasing back to save a certain try with a text book tackle on the line.

Only trouble is, it was a two-on-one situation and the tackled bloke was able to offload to a teammate who was strolling through utterly unopposed.

Now I would say that Varndell did his job perfectly and some other muppet let him down.

Or is it sacriledge to oppose the "Varndell Is Cr*p" mafia?

[4071]

When Varndell is criticised for not having a rugby brain, and just finishing off easy tries, do his critics ever stop to wonder just how a player without a rugby brain is always the one there to finish them off?

Do his critics ever notice that for all the easy run-ins he scores on his own wing, he scores just as many on the opposite wing, and picked just the right moment to track the width of the field and pop up in support to make the overlap?

Do they ever stop to think that if it was just a case of being lucky enough to find yourself on the end of moves, then Varndell wouldn't have been the top try-scorer at his club every single season that he's had a fair run of games?

Look at his record at Wasps this season compared to the other wingers:
Tom Varndell - 19 tries in 25 games
Paul Sackey - 3 tries in 21 games
David Lemi - 3 tries in 18 games

If he just stands on the wing waiting for chances to come his way, it is statistically very improbable that of the 25 chances to fall to Wasps wingers, TV just happens to have got lucky and been there for 19 of them.

It's not just the wingers, either. Tom's try-scoring record this season for Wasps stacks up well against all the other Wasps backs COMBINED. Van Gisburgen, Lemi, Sackey, Waldouck, Jacobs, Kefu, Cipriani, Simpson, Hickey, Walder, Smith, Wallace, Fury, Robinson, Honeyben and Mitchell have a COMBINED total of 23 tries scored.
Varndell has 19.

Out top man, Scott Hamilton, has 7 tries, followed by Allen on 6 and Twelvetrees/Hipkiss/Tuilagi/J.Murphy on 4.
Varndell has 19.

[Darc Tiger]

And yet on the highlights programme the other night I saw a bloke that looked exactly like Varndell playing for Wasps (must have been a doppleganger, obviously) chasing back to save a certain try with a text book tackle on the line.

Only trouble is, it was a two-on-one situation and the tackled bloke was able to offload to a teammate who was strolling through utterly unopposed.

Now I would say that Varndell did his job perfectly and some other muppet let him down.

Or is it sacriledge to oppose the "Varndell Is Cr*p" mafia?

I dont think he is :censored:. Just frustrated that he could be so much better.

I also get frustrated at people who accuse us of losing all our exciting and leaving us with a bunch of useless, boring players, when we have plenty of exciting players, we score tries regularly and have an large number of exciting young prospects.

[Sam W]

By no means am I saying that TV is dire defensively 100% of the time, but the fact remains that under pressure he generally fails to produce the goods. There were times in the same game where he looked absolutely clueless when people started running at him!