Pitbull bleating again

[gimme]

Brian Moore aka Pitbull...............he`s turned into a Fred Trueman, "when I were playing etc etc" sort of thing.
moaning about the ref all the time, and biting the bait thrown out by the wazzok Butler ( funny as it is )
I reckon this time he did show himself up rather, for all the refs faults he did keep the offside line at ruck and maul much better than most, it always is the back foot, but all through this campaign (and others) the refs just let the non participating players stand offside blatently. I reckon if all the refs stuck to their guns regarding the offside in loose play it would be much better, you never hear Bblleddwwynn Jawnz doing it :)
England are looking good innit

[Kinoulton]

To be fair to Brian More, he appears to be the only person on the planet that is as despairing as I am about:

1) The boring spectacle of repeatedly re-set scrums. I don't pay good money to see 20 of the allocated 80 minutes taken up by scrums which end up with props boring their shoulders into the ground, just so they can do it again.

2) I pay for 80 minutes of rugby. But nowadays, anytime after 73 minutes, the side in front goes into this useless charade of pretending to play the ball.

Fatboy holding the ball jumps at an opponent, crashes to the ground and scuttles the ball back to another fatboy who does the same ad nauseum. Any attempt by the opposition to disrupt this tedium is penalised. I would actually rather watch American Football or Rugby League than this crushingly boring and frustrating tedium.

3) We want the ball to be playable. But following any ruck, players have no idea when they are allowed to go for the pill and tend not to, preferring to stand back whilst they watch their opposition scrum half :censored: around over a ball which he should have shipped out ages ago. In my book, some meat head should be allowed to go over the top, pinch the ball and smack the dithering scrum half whilst he's at it.

Brian Moore speaks for me on all these three things.

[fleabane]

I agree Kinny. Moore may sometimes be a caricature, but I think he speaks for a lot of rugby fans who are fed up with all of the above, and over the question of when the ball is out of a scrum or ruck, and on how long the tackled player can keep their hand on the ball whilst the 9 organises his defence.

[BT]

He says it as he sees it and as a ref he can still get it wrong and does. But he does see what the ref does wrong and says so. The Ref Sunday IMHO was against anything English and probably whistled for the crowd. I would say France were about 9 points the better for his decisions?

[Hull Fan]

Brian Moore aka Pitbull...............he`s turned into a Fred Trueman, "when I were playing etc etc" sort of thing.
moaning about the ref all the time, and biting the bait thrown out by the wazzok Butler ( funny as it is )
I reckon this time he did show himself up rather, for all the refs faults he did keep the offside line at ruck and maul much better than most, it always is the back foot, but all through this campaign (and others) the refs just let the non participating players stand offside blatently. I reckon if all the refs stuck to their guns regarding the offside in loose play it would be much better, you never hear Bblleddwwynn Jawnz doing it :)
England are looking good innit

He did keep England back, all you heard most of the game was "white back half a step!"
I dont recall ever hearing him say "blue back half a step!"

I think this is what Moore was reffering to.

[kevf]

and what was the ref doing.. you will touch pause engage on my command.. he sounded like a petulant little boy at times... ok yes they are supposed to do it but he was not consistent with the timings so the players couldn't get used to it then he missed incorrect bindings and at one point he was stood 3 yds away from the ruck and missed 3 french players going in the side...

as moody says you can't blame the ref you have to play the ref....

all in all i think we played better than we have we played mostly what was in front of us... we countered when necessary... we kicked when necessary...

just need to get execution better now

[mol2]

I thought the ref was pedantic at the scrum - moving the front rows 3 or 4 inches rather than getting on with the game.
I know the Southern Hemisphere don't like scrummaging but England & France do - yet the ref seemed set on disrupting it wherever possible.

Sorry why does the 6N have to put up with SH refs - there are ample useless ones in the Premiership and enough good ones in the NH already so why we need to import SH to spoil games I don't know.

I have to say that there should be a time limit on how long the ball may stay in a ruck - certainly once the ball has become playable by the scrum half a maximum of 5 seconds to use the ball. Any longer than this and the ruck should be deemed over.

[Chobbsy]

[quote="Kinoulton"]To be fair to Brian More, he appears to be the only person on the planet that is as despairing as I am about:

1) The boring spectacle of repeatedly re-set scrums. I don't pay good money to see 20 of the allocated 80 minutes taken up by scrums which end up with props boring their shoulders into the ground, just so they can do it again.

2) I pay for 80 minutes of rugby. But nowadays, anytime after 73 minutes, the side in front goes into this useless charade of pretending to play the ball.

Fatboy holding the ball jumps at an opponent, crashes to the ground and scuttles the ball back to another fatboy who does the same ad nauseum. Any attempt by the opposition to disrupt this tedium is penalised. I would actually rather watch American Football or Rugby League than this crushingly boring and frustrating tedium.

3) We want the ball to be playable. But following any ruck, players have no idea when they are allowed to go for the pill and tend not to, preferring to stand back whilst they watch their opposition scrum half around over a ball which he should have shipped out ages ago. In my book, some meat head should be allowed to go over the top, pinch the ball and smack the dithering scrum half whilst he's at it.

Brian Moore speaks for me on all these three things.[/quote]

I have to agree, I like his commentary, he speaks as he sees or feels it... refreshing

[Hull Fan]

Does Eddie Butler annoy anyone else when commentating on the French, (he annoys me at other times as well) when he has to say the French players names with such a daft voice.
I'm sure he is gramatically correct etc but it iritates the hell out of me.!

[Kinoulton]

Does Eddie Butler annoy anyone else when commentating on the French, (he annoys me at other times as well) when he has to say the French players names with such a daft voice.
I'm sure he is gramatically correct etc but it iritates the hell out of me.!

C'est vrai!

[Anthony]

Eddie Butler is annoying full stop.

Although Brian Moore does sound like he's whinging, he is only saying what a lot of us are thinking, or shouting at the telly.

It's not harking back to the old days as quoted, the game has rules and the general rugby fan is knowledgeable about the sport. To see rules bent, flouted or simply ignored is incredibly frustrating.

[Longshanks]

Does Eddie Butler annoy anyone else when commentating on the French, (he annoys me at other times as well) when he has to say the French players names with such a daft voice.
I'm sure he is gramatically correct etc but it iritates the hell out of me.!

Butler just wants everyone to understand that he is fluent in French - which is why he prefers to use Christian Name and Surname for French players and just Surname for everyone else.

I had to chuckle listening to Rapael Ibanez speaking after the game - his French pronunciations are much less affected than Butler's when he speaks in English!

[trendylfj]

Hows about this for a couple of suggestions (just to stir things up a bit)

1. when the ball is clearly visable and playable - 5 seconds called by the ref and then no offside line - opponents can come round and play the ball.

2. when a scrum is called on the command engage - scrum half must put the ball in on the engage command - failure to do so - free kick. collapse on purpose - penalty - scrum to continue if no fault on collapse but no 8 must pick it up on all scrums.

Result

No reset scrums at all - no holding on the the ball for the last 5 mins of game

[Darc Tiger]

Does Eddie Butler annoy anyone else when commentating on the French, (he annoys me at other times as well) when he has to say the French players names with such a daft voice.
I'm sure he is gramatically correct etc but it iritates the hell out of me.!

Butler just wants everyone to understand that he is fluent in French - which is why he prefers to use Christian Name and Surname for French players and just Surname for everyone else.

I had to chuckle listening to Rapael Ibanez speaking after the game - his French pronunciations are much less affected than Butler's when he speaks in English!

Duusatwaarrr!

[G.K]

All we need is for these fairly useless refs (and the one in Paris was particularly useles) to actually apply the current laws correctly. Selected examples of major blind spots in Paris just on the scrum.

Binding (20.3):

Binding by loose head props. A loose head prop must bind on the opposing tight head prop by placing the left arm inside the right arm of the tight head and gripping the tight head prop’s jersey on the back or side. The loose head prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition tight head prop. The loose head prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

Binding by tight head props. A tight head prop must bind on the opposing loose head prop by placing the right arm outside the left upper arm of the opposing loose head prop. The tight head prop must grip the loose head prop’s jersey with the right hand only on the back or side. The tight head prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition loose head prop. The tight head prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

Putting the Ball In (20.5 & 20.6):

No Delay. As soon as the front rows have come together, the scrum half must throw in the ball without delay. The scrum half must throw in the ball when told to do so by the referee. The scrum half must throw in the ball from the side of the scrum first chosen.
Penalty: Free Kick

The scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line, so that it first touches the ground immediately beyond the width of the nearer prop’s shoulders.
Penalty: Free Kick

As far as when the scrum is over then all the refereee has to do is call it. If they spent their time just calling the phases (e.g. ball out, tackle, ruck etc) rather than coaching the players (e.g. no 5 white back a bit) then we'd all be much better off.

In any case, as with a maul, anything more than 5 seconds with the ball at the back of the scrum and the scrum not moving then scrum is deemed to be over and have a new scrum with put in to other team. Or, as Kinny says, just allow a backrower to come round and flatten the scrum half. Maybe the IRB should issue guidelines on this.